Winter-ready ski-trip foamy design

[KCStudly]

Devil's advocate. What is your climate like in the off season? Ever thought about non-winter adventures?

Listen to these people with experience camping in all sorts of weather and save yourself a lot of misery. There are years of history here of people getting it right... and getting it wrong. The universal truth is seal it up tight against water damage, but ventilate for comfort and against moisture build up.

On the subject of cross ventilation, best plan is to bring fresh air in at floor or mattress level and vent out at roof high point or top of wall. Heat rises and creates natural chimney convection. CO2 sinks. If your cross flow/updraft is not adequate to lift the CO2 out, having a low intake will let it sink out (at least that's how I figure it).

One more thing (for now at least... and we have heard this so many times), don't be afraid of curves instead of hard miters. At least plan on large radii at joints. Igloos don't cave in from snow load because they are dome shaped, and eskimos have few tools to work with, so how hard can it be? Consider GPW's Foamstream build method. Plenty of arch structure, aero, good wind spillage, headroom, etc.

Okay, one more thought. Don't worry about snow load lifting or lowering a popup. You will be carrying one of those telescoping trucker rakes used to remove snow from your roof. (period)... and be clearing snow off accordingly. It's the law here, I assume there, too.

[IrrationalExhuberous]

Devil's advocate. What is your climate like in the off season? Ever thought about non-winter adventures?

I really hate car camping and don't expect a trailer would change my mind. I much prefer to go backpacking long distances to get as far away from other people as possible when the weather is nice.

Listen to these people with experience camping in all sorts of weather and save yourself a lot of misery. There are years of history here of people getting it right... and getting it wrong. The universal truth is seal it up tight against water damage, but ventilate for comfort and against moisture build up.

of course, hence the dryer vent pc crossfan plus vented heater.

One more thing (for now at least... and we have heard this so many times), don't be afraid of curves instead of hard miters. At least plan on large radii at joints. Igloos don't cave in from snow load because they are dome shaped, and eskimos have few tools to work with, so how hard can it be? Consider GPW's Foamstream build method. Plenty of arch structure, aero, good wind spillage, headroom, etc.
.

I'm not categorically opposed to curves they're just a lot harder to draft, especially in combination with a gable roof.

[GPW]

Good points KC !!! We tried the traditional trailers here , one TD (plywood ) , one box ( foamie ) , one box CT( steel ) , and the FoamStream just seemed the logical conclusion … although looking like a Horse trailer , but I guess that’s why Horse trailers look like they do ….

[RJ Howell]

There are two makers of hard side pop-top campers I have found on the internet (probably more). I went soft side and have camped into mid 40° 's fine.

You may want translator for this one, but they talk about the build:
https://www.casa-trotter.com/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=7838

Tis one is just sales, but you can see how well it works:
https://www.hiatuscampers.com/?fbclid=IwAR18a3sirlL4mHWen39Bb7-FmN1wr5-H7M6Z6DnQNzOP1fmujtROfSZWyL0

I do intent on build another pop-top camper as a trailer and will work through this system of paneled walls.

[troubleScottie]

To the initial post, batteries will need charging. Assuming a large battery ( 80+ AH), charging only phones and light weight LED lighting, you might be good for several days depending on usage. Adding fans and a propane/diesel heater is going to use power. You will have to make some sort of effort to recharge.

Obviously at home, you can use standard battery charger.

You should look into charging while driving via some DC-to-DC charger. That way you can charge while you are moving or even while parked. Search this site for ideas, etc. Although not real cheap, it might be a critical part of your build.

Generators are another option. There are issues with noise, fuel and other things. If this is for cold climates, you might have issues with fuels. Gasoline could work. You might like to look into propane modification (dual fuel option) assuming you are already carrying it. Refueling a generator every 4 hours gets old in the dark, in rain/snow. There is an issue of where to store the generator and moving it around. Some issues might come in with snow fall. I have run a generator outdoors under an overhang for over a week with rain and cool weather. However, you will most likely have a convenient overhang. There are covers for the generators to protect from rain and possibly snow.

On your design, drag is based on two things, velocity (squared) and cross-sectional area. Anything that can be seen when looking at the trailer from in front of the tow vehicle is going to add drag. Technically, there are other issues, with the shape of the trailer and turbulence between the tow vehicle and the trailer. That is a major appeal of the teardrop : low, narrow profile running in the shadow of the tow vehicle, and the half wing shape which is one of the lower drag configurations.

BTW on the drawing curves, use ellipses. You do not have to use the entire ellipse. You can joint two ellipses to create compound curses if you like. If you record the major and minor axes and center points, it is possible to redraw using an appropriate amount of string or make an ellipse jig with appropriate sliders to almost any scale. Alternatively, you can use thin strips of wood as a spline. There are youtube videos on all of this.

[hossesdad]

Exhuberous, I have built an 11’6” trailer and three of us have done twenty odd nights skiing from it.

I considered a hard pop top but I think a solid build is good for a lot more wind (we’ve seen it go 50 mph, although we had some shelter) easier to design ( not a minor matter) and a lot easier to build. I have two inches of XP’s ( Dow Corning) 4 mm of ply inside and 1 mm of aluminium outside. We are good to go down to freezing temps, need heating on and off at minus six Celsius, haven’t been lower than that. As is remarked above, one needs ventilation, so there are diminishing returns on insulation. A wood burning stove is ideal, I built one for peanuts, we put in a few cubic inches of kindling and that makes it comfortable for a couple of hours... a real fire would cook us. A wood burning stove and ventilation dries our gear, too, besides being fun. But a Webasto style diesel heater would be my other choice, have used them in yachts. The real deal is pricey and excellent but the clones work, I hear. Need battery power to fire , but solar is a must anyway and a decent solar setup will keep up even in winter.

Enjoy the skiing. I love not having to book accomodation, going at no notice when the snow falls, and staying extra nights, besides being cheap.

[twisted lines]

A shape similar to one of your's viewtopic.php?t=71585
My two cent's add the shape of a tounge box up front access only from inside
Rounded layers could be strong enough 1" foam X 2 or 3 and some of that famous 1/8" birch ply all glued together!
One thing I have not seen mentioned is wind gust's & ice
Some have seen a aluminum boat trailer float, fewer have seen one float backed into a river
That's how I see a super light trailer going down down my local roads in the winter.

[IrrationalExhuberous]

Exhuberous, I have built an 11’6” trailer and three of us have done twenty odd nights skiing from it.
...
Enjoy the skiing. I love not having to book accomodation, going at no notice when the snow falls, and staying extra nights, besides being cheap.

I saw your build the other day! It's probably the closest to what i'm envisioning in terms of construction material, interior volume, total weight, etc. A little taller.
Biggestt difference is probably the aluminum skin and plywood interior finish. Do you think that the plywood adds significant strength or was it merely a cosmetic finishing choice?

I was really attracted to the idea of a wood stove but I'm not sure I'd like having to restock it overnight and I wasn't sure I could dedicate the space it would require. Also concerned about managing the airflow/smoke correctly. I've seen a couple run-down leaking moldy pop up campers go by on local trade forums for <1000$. I'm currently hoping I could snag one of those and strip it down to its frame but also salvage the electrical and propane furnace out of it.

[IrrationalExhuberous]

On your design, drag is based on two things, velocity (squared) and cross-sectional area. Anything that can be seen when looking at the trailer from in front of the tow vehicle is going to add drag. Technically, there are other issues, with the shape of the trailer and turbulence between the tow vehicle and the trailer. That is a major appeal of the teardrop : low, narrow profile running in the shadow of the tow vehicle, and the half wing shape which is one of the lower drag configurations.

I tried a couple drop angles on the front of my previous "church" design and it seemed to make it much too complicated, sacrifice a lot of headroom / jacket hanging space, and not seem that appealing.

Screenshot (88).png (87.85 KiB) Viewed 2863 times

Then I thought, Why not just spin the whole thing around?

Screenshot (89).png (147.48 KiB) Viewed 2863 times

[GPW]

IrrE, that looks pretty Cool , and doable..

[hossesdad]

Do you think that the plywood adds significant strength or was it merely a cosmetic finishing choice?

Strength. Composites utilise the tensile strength of the outer components. I cannot break a piece of our composite. We cannot always drive to safety, the road being more exposed than where we sleep. Is toughness necessary? I put my hand out a car window at 50mph and mulitply by 250 (very roughly) to get a feel for wind on the side of the van. I answer yes. Other answers are good also, it depends on how well one sleeps when worried!

I was really attracted to the idea of a wood stove but I'm not sure I'd like having to restock it overnight and I wasn't sure I could dedicate the space it would require. Also concerned about managing the airflow/smoke correctly. I've seen a couple run-down leaking moldy pop up campers go by on local trade forums for <1000$. I'm currently hoping I could snag one of those and strip it down to its frame but also salvage the electrical and propane furnace out of it.

A wood fire is cheap enough to make (ours is front and back frames of angle iron welded, then the body made of four sides and two ends of 1/16th" steel bolted on or bolted together(with appropriate overlaps). But a second hand gas furnace sounds good. But don't be put off building a wood fire thinking it is rocket science....I don't think it is. I re-ran the mental spreadsheet for the cost of ours, yes, eighteen dollars plus some paintstripper, some fireproof paint and a flue. A friend wants one for a wedding present, so he gets mark 2. I've seen the steel, it thinks it is part of a rusting wool press next door farm but one but to my eye, it is a fire mark 2 waiting to happen.

[TinkerTailor]

Exhuberous: Great project and much luck. I'm working on a collapsible foamie standie for ski trips myself:

viewtopic.php?f=55&t=72774

You might also have seen this foamie ski camper, but in case not: https://www.wildsnow.com/26022/home-mad ... r-trailer/

Hossesdad: Great work on your build. I'm very excited by your success with a wood stove, as that is what I'm leaning toward in order to cut down on electrical needs. Any chance of some additional info as to your stove build techniques, heat shielding in a foamie, etc.? I'll likely purchase a tent stove, or if I hit the jackpot a cubic mini (unlikely!), but I'm all ears.

Best -

TT

[IrrationalExhuberous]

You might also have seen this foamie ski camper, but in case not: https://www.wildsnow.com/26022/home-mad ... r-trailer/

I saw that awhile ago back when I was still considering a cargo trailer. It's definitely clever but I'm not sure he solved it.
I really want a fixed bed long enough for my 6'3 frame. That drop floor looks like a failure point in addition to being cold.
The table is a nice idea but with 3-4 foot long legs I cannot imagine using it or sharing it with anyone comfortably given how tiny that thing is.

I'm watching your progress with interest. A r igid folding design seems mandatory to have a large amount of insulated interior space while still being driveable on windy icy mountain roads.
Someone linked a design in your thread:
viewtopic.php?f=50&t=49781
obviously the plywood is too heavy. and I think you could get away with an even larger angle in the roof to get more useable headroom when open.

I'm skeptical I can make a folding foamie strong enough without introducing a lot of wood at all the hinge points (and to anchor the hinge areas to the frame) when I was imagining a much more egg-shell-like unibody design.

[TinkerTailor]

I agree about the drop floor. You're correct about the need for wood framing. My project is not monocoque construction at all, so is pretty different from the traditional foamie. I'm planning to keep furnishings to a minimum until I've camped in it a few times to see what I really want and need. Good luck with your design!

[IrrationalExhuberous]

I'm looking at putting in an energy recovery air exchanger.
Probably only makes sense if I can figure out how to DIY one for less than 50 bucks.

I searched the forum but not found any discussion of it.
On the entire internet i've only found one compact DIY air exchanger project.
https://handmadematt.blogspot.com/2015/ ... t.html?m=1