Cabin Length-Questioning Size

[Capebuild]

My original intention was to build a 5x8. Our towing vehicle is a 2019 Subaru Outback. I felt an 8 foot cabin would provide a lighter "load" and make for easier driving.
However, I'm beginning to question whether we should be considering a 10' long cabin. I'm still in the researching / getting educated phase. I can see the advantages of a 10' trailer,
and I suppose that additional 2 feet would provide a lot of space in the tiny teardrop trailer world. We like the idea of having a galley, but a minimal galley would work for us.

We are fine with an 8 foot trailer, but wondering if a 10 foot trailer would be "better" and still be an easy tow for our vehicle.

I'd appreciate hearing thoughts anyone might have. I'm just starting to draw up the chassis frame so I'll need to make a "design decision".

Thanks very much for your insights.

John

[TimC]

I'm no expert so this is only my opinion. I have built three 5x8s so far. I am 5'7". My brother (TD#2) is 6' and my son (TD#3 build in process) is 6'1". I cut an 80" mattress down two inches in length and have plenty of room for me. My brother and son both made the galley slightly smaller to accommodate the 80" mattresses they have. Neither of them have complained about the size of the galley which is a couple inches shorter than mine. I stressed in their builds that it is most important to use every cubic inch in a teardrop efficiently for stuff needed/wanted on a trip.

As far as TDs weight. My TD is a woodie and weighs about 1400 lbs and I tow with a Ford Escape with a 4 cyl Ecoboost. No problems, it is equipped with electric brakes. My brother's tow vehicle is the same as yours and his Woodie constructed TD does not have brakes. He has not weighed it but I would guess it weighs about the same as mine. My son's TD is a foamie and I doubt it will weigh much more than 1K lbs loaded. It will be towed with a larger SUV and it does not have brakes.

A 5x10 would be great except that that space will be filled with stuff. I would guess you are adding two to three hundred pounds of materials in the build for a ten footer (frame material, floor, walls, roof structure). If you dedicate it to cabin/sleeping area and limit weighty storage it would be fine. With that tow vehicle you should be careful how much weight you add in gear and pay particular attention to correct tongue weight! If you have brakes on the trailer that increases your ability to carry a bit more weight. Remember, it's not how much your tow vehicle is rated to tow... it is how much weight your tow vehicle can stop!

Tim

[Homebrewer25]

4 cyl Outbacks have a towing capacity of 2700 lbs. That was one of the factors considered when I bought one. I would have no qualms about towing 1800 lbs.

My design stretches a 5x8 to 5x11, with a height of 5'. I expect mine to weigh about 1300 empty (its a foamy), and that includes the major kitchen gear and necessary tools. 500 lbs of gear will still keep me south of a ton.

[gudmund]

remember there could always be a 'compromise' of 5x9.... the other thing to take into consideration, which is something I am sure you have thought of is towing capacity. Not just what the trailer weights, but what "ALL" the extra stuff you are planning on/going to be carrying 'over and above' the weight of towing the trailer. It can be shocking when hitting the weight scale's and seeing what the 'total' ends up being overall (to include the weight of even passengers). My trailer weighs in at 1650lbs loaded with my PU's towing capacity at 3200lbs (7000lb total combined capacity limit for the PU & trailer together) When totally loaded with all of my "stuff" = I see 6500lbs for 'everything' along with 2900lbs on the rear PU axle (which has a 3000lb limit per the owners manual). My point = the trailer I am towing ends up weighting in at "just" a bit over 'half' of what my towing capacity rating is (trailer weight limit of 3200lbs), but once all of the other "stuff" is loaded = it ends up being a whole different story. Towing capacity is not the 'only' weight figure to be concerned with. My tow vehicle is a 'base' model PU with a 4 cylinder engine, my last one had had the optional bigger engine which had a 5500lb tow rating (9500lb 'total' vehicle rating limit) "Same" brand and version of PU truck - w/same trans-rear end gear, and ever the same 'version' of engine but smaller (minus one less cylinder) thus with less power. Take care and good luck with the project ...............

[tony.latham]

I think my wife would beat me with a stick if I were to tell her I was going to build a teardrop without a headboard (with storage under it).





Tony

[saywhatthat]

this like asking what color I am holding up. How are you going to build light are heavy? How many days you going to use it . To have longer to pay for all that waste. Don't say what you can pull it is what you can stop. What shape is your car in. where you going to park it when not in use. If you camp when cold the smaller the warmer the best is cut out a cardboard profile lift it up to ride height see what you can live with the bigger the trailer the more crap you will carry. Tape the floor will you have a dog are kids that may camp with you?

[halfdome, Danny]

All 6 of our teardrops have all been 5' x 10' and towed with a 6 cylinder Chevy Blazer then a straight six Chevy Trailblazer.
The straight six has more torque and pulls like a champ up the mountain passes.
What the 10' long gives us is a 80" long mattress, a 10" deep headboard area and a 16" deep footboard area above our legs.

The headboard area holds my shower back pack that holds all the necessary items to freshen up plus my towel and change of clothes.
We bike to the showers in Yosemite and the back packs come in real handy.
Like Tony said. my wife would not be happy without the headboard & footboard storage.

The ceiling panel attaches to the edge of the rabbit that's routed along the top.
It's that deep to accommodate ceiling insulation and roof spars.


The galley is just deep enough to hold a Camp Chef stove/oven combination that slides out on a tray.
Very comfortable size to prepare meals.

Headboard. We put our small ceramic heater in the center opening along with clocks etc.

Footboard. The small squares on the floor are battery hatch covers.
All my forward traveling wires are in the profile radius wall celling molding that is easily removed to add or service.
The white at the bottom corner of the wall to floor is Wiremold that holds my 110 volt wires to the headboard.
My fuse box etc is located behind the 2 small doors in the center of the footboard.
The center opening holds our T.V.
Hope this is of some help, Danny

[Tom&Shelly]

We were originally considering building a 5x8 with a big tongue box. As we sketched ideas, it looked like, if we sat up to read, the curve in the front top of the tear would force our heads forward. Our design evolved to 5x10, with a "utility room" in the lower front. Rather than access from the cabin (like Tony's) we chose to spend on some access doors.



We also decided to add a built in air conditioner (for times when we're stuck in muggy weather and camping at a site with AC power, like my Mom's back yard in Upstate NY)



The front access door provides ventilation for the air conditioning unit. Above the utility room, in the main cabin, we have a bookcase, with some clamps to keep the literature in place on bumpy roads (we hope--yet to be tested). (2nd photo taken before we added the ceiling.)



The utility room is designed to hold an Easy-Up, folding table, chairs, spare bedroom (tent), and a few other things from our tent camping days. Our bed is 78 inches long, and we have a shallow, 21 inch deep galley.

Guess my suggestion is to consider what you want to do, and design to your need. (Shelly may yet beat me with a stick when we finally try this out this Spring, but it won't be because she was left out of the design process!)

Tom

[Capebuild]

Thank you all for the helpful suggestions. In thinking about this and considering your comments, my main concern is the extra weight a 10' trailer might have and the extra strain it might put on my Subaru....
and how the trailer and car might drive together. I think (would hope) the car could handle it (I'm planning on having brakes on the trailer) but need to contemplate it a bit more. I think what I'll do is start to design it as an 8 foot unit and see how it develops. I like the idea of
getting a big piece of cardboard, cutting out the profile and stick it behind the car. I can probably rig something up where my wife and I can position ourselves in it and see how it might be.

So many things to consider when designing one of these trailers.

Thank you again.

John

[noseoil]

Our teardrop is a 5X9 Benroy style (added floor length by using no "tumblehome" at the waterline) & does what we need well enough. It could have been 5x8 or 5x10, but since I wasn't doing welding at the time I used the frame I found as the basic size & designed around it. We added brakes & a better axle rated to 3500# after a few years, when I actually put it on a scale & found I was a bit optimistic about the build's weight. The rolling weight is now about 1700# empty, which will increase a bit on a trip. We're towing with a newer Ford Ranger with an EcoBoost motor, 10 speed transmission & a tow rating of 7,500# which is plenty for the teardrop. I would agree with Tony about the headboard for glasses, phone charging & a bit more storage, it's good to have & will make travels much better. The 5x9 gives us a galley & a headboard, both of which I would not leave home without.

To me the "weak link" in your build & tow will be the CVT transmission in the Outback. It's not that you have a lot to worry a lot about it, but the 2700# limit they have is going to be limited by the drive train in your case (just IMO, no real world data to back this up). The motor will be fine, the suspension & running gear will be good, but the transmission will be where the heat is generated under a load at sustained pulling speeds. Because of this, I would do everything possible to make the trailer as light as possible. You might consider a beefed up floor system (with added hard points for attachments) that has a tongue & axle of steel, while the rest is a "mono hull" which uses the torsion box as the load carrying part of the build & is actual structure, no frame. This will take a bit more planning, thinking & execution, but could save a lot of weight without sacrificing strength or durability.

That being said, a foamie which is well made with a steel frame could also save a lot of weight.

I wouldn't exclude any ideas yet, but come up with a design you want & see how much weight you can shave off of the build with the knowledge from other builds. Copy every good idea you can find here!

[Socal Tom]

The extra 2 feet won't make that much of a difference to the TV. Its what you do with it that will matter. I have a 5x8 generic benroy. Empty it weighs in right about 950lbs. The weight of the stuff I put in it has pushed it up over 1500 lbs. With a smaller TV you need to be cognizant of what you bring vs what you need to bring. I've gotten much better at trimming down the weight. I got a 1 gallon propane tank that weighs 11 lbs full vs the 5 gallon ones that weigh about 40lbs full. I only bring AC when I know I will need it. I've got a small set of tools for emergency repairs, rather then bringing a 30 lb tool box. What will you do with the 2 feet? if its extend the bed and move stuff from the TV to the TD, then you really aren't adding all that much weight/effort. If its making room so you can carry the kitchen sink, then you need to rethink a bit.

As far as the "strain" on the TV. If you are within the MFG tow rating specs, and you change your fluids as required, and you keep the temps under control then it should be fine. Here in So California, we have an entire subculture that camps in the desert. You take an RV that is already putting a brick shaped house and putting it on a truck chassis, then add a trailer that has up to 10K additional weight. I used to pull a trailer that weighed 2K filled with an early bronco ( 5K) and at least another 1K worth of tools and fuel. You subaru will be fine with a few hundred extra pounds. If you are really worried about it put brakes on the trailer, add a brake controller to the TV as well as a transmission cooler. You may go slower up hill, but you subaru will still last 200K miles if you change the fluids and other wise maintain it properly.

[Capebuild]

Thank you all, once again.

I did a quick rendering of what a 10 foot trailer might look like. Now that I see it, doesn't seem so bad (or scary). We do not plan on having a sink in the galley so the will cut out a few things (sink, pump, grey water holding tank). As I continue to create files for the design I can get a rough ball park of weight.

I think I'll change my plan and start with a 10 foot design. I can then reduce it if it starts to look heavy (or scary)

regards
John

[tony.latham]

I did a quick rendering of what a 10 foot trailer might look like.

That's a pleasing profile.

Tony