Lifepo4 batteries - Iron Phosphate vs CATL

[foxontherun]

Seeking opinions on which one is more ideal for boondocking. Pricing on Alibaba seems similar. Thoughts on which one is better. Anyone used the CATL version?
Thanks,
Harry

[John61CT]

Tesla does.

Make sure your supplier is trustworthy.

Not just genuine vs counterfeit

but new not secondhand

and Grade A not QA rejects.

So many scammers on Ali

[MtnDon]

LFP is safer

[John61CT]

LFP is safer

wut?

CATL is a leading maker of LFP cells.

LFP = LiFePO4

[MtnDon]

Sorry I was/am confused.

I thought the "Iron Phosphate vs CATL" was asking how an LFP (lithium iron phospahte cell or battery) compared to the other lithium chemistries used in many of the cylindrical cells. I did not know that CATL was a manufacturer. I mistakenly thought it was some acronym for the type of cylindrical cells that Tesla used since their beginning, that are NOT LFP.

My error. I apologize for causing confusion.

So with that out of the way, isn't the LFP chemistry inherently safer than the other lithium types that are commonly used for cylindrical cells? They can be punctured. Don't burst into flames as a few Tesla cars have.

[rjgimp]

Sorry I was/am confused.

I thought the "Iron Phosphate vs CATL" was asking how an LFP (lithium iron phospahte cell or battery) compared to the other lithium chemistries used in many of the cylindrical cells. I did not know that CATL was a manufacturer. I mistakenly thought it was some acronym for the type of cylindrical cells that Tesla used since their beginning, that are NOT LFP.

My error. I apologize for causing confusion.

So with that out of the way, isn't the LFP chemistry inherently safer than the other lithium types that are commonly used for cylindrical cells? They can be punctured. Don't burst into flames as a few Tesla cars have.

I thought the same exact thing Don. Also I agree with your final statement.

[John61CT]

isn't the LFP chemistry inherently safer than the other lithium types

Yes, also lasts 10x the cycling lifespan.

LTO 10x more again, even harder to murder, and even safer

[bdosborn]

Seeking opinions on which one is more ideal for boondocking. Pricing on Alibaba seems similar. Thoughts on which one is better. Anyone used the CATL version?

CATL is a manufacturer, I assume you're asking about the nickel cobalt aluminum oxide (NCA) chemistry that Tesla uses (CATL had a contract with Tesla to supply them)? Here's a lithium battery chemistry comparison:

https://www.powertechsystems.eu/home/tech-corner/safety-of-lithium-ion-batteries/

Note the "Dangerous chemistry" next to NCA and LCO batteries. They turn into a blow torch when they go into thermal overload, which isn't ideal for a wooden trailer. If you want to learn more about Lithium battery fires, look here:

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/aps-battery-fire-explosion-safety-lithium-mcmicken-fluence

This accident was a seminal event in battery storage, resulting in a lot of code changes. I read the forensic report for the accident - APS did most everything right and their batteries still went into thermal runaway, blew up and hurt a lot of firemen. I went with LiFePo4 chemistry because while they will go into thermal runaway and vent if improperly charged, they don't vent any combustionable gases.

LTO is promising but they are expensive right now and at an awkward voltage that doesn't work well for 12V systems.

I've had good luck with CALB LiFePo4 cells but watch out for fakes on Alibaba.

Bruce

[John61CT]

I was not aware CATL has ever supplied Tesla with any chemistry other than LFP.

My posts here are only about LFP specifically.

Other top notch makers besides CATL & CALB include Winston, GBS, Sinopoly and A123 (now Lithium Werks / Valence / Super B)


> LTO ... an awkward voltage that doesn't work well for 12V systems.

5S works just fine

[John61CT]

Many countries, you can buy direct from the maker.

Often not even that much more expensive apples to apples.

But of course comparing to scammers will seem very pricey.

[bdosborn]

I'm hearing that there is a world wide shortage of Li batteries. Our UPS rep is saying orders are stretching out 9 months and getting longer all the time.

Bruce

[foxontherun]

Thanks for the discussion folks....still learning. If I recall correctly, Flboy's Lifepo's took 3-4 months with Alibaba (express?) which is what they are quoting me (one is iron phospate and the other CATL) assuming web page is correct. Not so sure they are as both say they are in stock and ready to ship but in the quote on the iron phosphate they indicated they were out of stock right now. It's the same outfit Flboy used I believe.

Not sure how good a deal they are just yet; Iron phos set of 8 (608ah total) run $1179 to my door and the CATL (560ah total) was $1219.
Harry

[foxontherun]

These are the two quoted me:
https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 40686.html

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 3e5f76XdZX

[John61CT]

I do not see CATL.

CATL make LFP

LFP means Lithium Iron Phosphate

iron= ferrous

If you really want good longevity, contact CATL or those other vendors I mentioned, give your location and ask for suggestions as to a preferred vendor.

Expect a much higher $/Ah price - delivered - than rando vendors on Ali.

Treated well the bank will last many thousands of cycles, decades even if used full-time.

[John61CT]

This recycler is very well respected

crazy good pricing even on brand new stuff

Battery Hookup
https://batteryhookup.com/products/new- ... -prismatic

look at their front page listings for more

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