Boat Trailer vs. Utility Trailer

[Paintsalot]

Hi Everyone,

I'm a newbie here. Do you recommend I buy a new utility trailer, or work with the trailer I have? I have an old trailer left over from when a pine tree fell across my 470 sailboat, but the trailer survived.

I am planning on a building a fold down caravan. It will be similar in concept to this one which was pulled by a bicycle: https://tinyhousetalk.com/modern-bicycl ... psy-wagon/ Tow limit is 1000 lbs for my Honda.

Pros for keeping it:
-Save $$$
-Puts it to good use
-I know the trailer, have driven it over 70mph with a boat on it
-Clear clutter from my yard!
-Axle position is adjustable with bolts.

Cons for keeping it:
-Will need to cantilever the floor at the front with wood framing (no welding for me)
-Trailer tongue is pretty long, may need cutting
- Needs painting, some rust spots.

Pros for a new trailer:
-Start fresh. Trailer the right size, 5x8 ft.
-Maybe better for resale?
-Possibly more stable, all edges supported.

I have a lot of other things I can put towards the build. Cedar 2x's, rubber roofing, etc. If I keep the trailer, I could try to build it with as much stuff I have already.... very environmental!

Here are some photos I already shared in the Sketchup channel.
My boat trailer

Dimensions of existing and extension (edited from earlier)
Set up
sides down, ends come next
All sides and top down
rough interior section

Thanks for input,
Matthew

[Paintsalot]

p.s. Not sure if this is the best spot for this question... y'all let me know if there's a better place to post it?
Thx!

[Pmullen503]

It can be done but without extensive rework to get the wheels where you need them or at least some metal work (welding) to extend the frame, I'd think you are better off starting with a new trailer.

You are going to spend a lot of your time and not an insignificant amount of money before you are done. Start with a solid foundation.

[Paintsalot]

You are going to spend a lot of your time and not an insignificant amount of money before you are done. Start with a solid foundation.

Thanks. Good points.
The axle placement can adjust some- axle is just bolted on. But I agree a good foundation is important. My background is in architecture. But I’m a frugal person and like to make use of things. Hence the dilemma.
If nothing else I can pull the gear off the boat trailer and use it to haul lumber. Or just sell it.

Cheers.

[tony.latham]

have driven it over 70mph with a boat on it...

What will your cabin weigh compared to the boat?

Tony

[Paintsalot]

What will your cabin weigh compared to the boat?

The 470 sailboat was around 280 lbs. The cabin might be 400 to 500?

Possible construction: I’m thinking marine fabric top or 1/8 ply, fabric sides where they fold down, 2x2 cedar/pine framing, lexan windows. Below hinge point would be 1/4” t&g pine or plywood. 3/4 or 5/8 plywood floor, no insulation. Wool insulation at walls. Foam insulation at top. Fabric ceiling. There will be benches that fold out to bed. Some sliding shelves for kitchen. Cedar door.

[tony.latham]

Diagram the trailer with your tow vehicle hitched from above. Do it in a jackknife while at about 45º angle ––as if you are backing it up.

I don't think you have enough tongue length. 4' is about right for most campers.

Tony

[Paintsalot]

4' is about right for most campers.

Thanks. My sketch above was just the main frame- sorry for the confusion. I sent that to a welder to see if he could add some tubing. Here is a better drawing done just now showing the tongue..
I deleted the sketch now in the earlier post, and replaced with more accurate drawing.

It will be too long probably for a tongue. But better than too short. The axle will be well placed as is I think, close to the 60/40 rule.

[S. Heisley]

Hi, Matthew:

According to what I could find, you must first consider your tow vehicle, a Honda Element:

1) Towing is not recommended. However, it seems it can tow no more than 1500 pounds and no more than 150 pounds tongue weight.
2) I could not find a tow package for the Honda to help protect the transmission
3) According to this: https://www.elementownersclub.com/threa ... des.21790/ cargo capacity in the back of the Honda Element is 350 pounds. Subtracting the 150 pound tongue weight of a trailer leaves you with a 200 pound capacity there.
4) I could not find the braking capacity and I doubt you would want to modify your brakes anyway. That could get expensive.

Based on the above, it would be possible for you to build but you would need to keep an eye on your weight with each building step as it is very, very easy to get carried away and over-build. Boat trailers are usually built heavier than a regular bolt-together trailer. With that in mind, I would start by getting your boat trailer weighed and then compare that weight to some of the bolt-together trailers online, such as Harbor Freight and Trailer Supply, etc. I must admit that your boat trailer is the smallest I've ever seen, though, and you may be okay with it. I'm honestly not certain. If you choose to go with it, please be careful of how far you build out sideways. Try to stay within the width of your Element to save fuel costs. Also, you may need to add more deck support in the front area as well as the sides, which will cost you in the weight area. Any build-outs will need additional support and that means additional weight as well.

I would plan on carrying your art supplies and canvases in the back of the Honda, along with your medium (I’m guessing) ice chest and plan on putting a mattress and any dry food and cooking utensils, etc. in the trailer. You don’t want your art supplies jostled and, with them in the back of your car, you would know all was reasonably safe. Also, building a foamie might be best for you as it uses a minimum of wood and is lighter weight. It would be especially good for a lifting roof as those can be surprisingly heavy to lift.

I hope this helps.

[S. Heisley]

PS. I very much feel that you are underestimating what your trailer with cabin will weigh. If you look at the graph that Andrew did before he passed away, you'll see what I mean: viewtopic.php?f=21&t=60392

[Paintsalot]

Thanks Sharon for all your input!! I’m not quite awake here… but here are a few thoughts-
Yes, the Honda Element guidelines say 1000 lbs max without separate trailer brakes. 1500 with brakes.
So I will have to watch weight. I’ve pulled sailboats frequently that weigh 650 lbs plus trailer, so around 950 lbs.
I weighed the trailer I have, it’s roughly 300 lbs with 65 tongue weight. But it has boat rails and a mast support which I can remove, so it may be closer to 270. That’s similar to some kit trailers.

Since I’m an artist- I know how to stretch fabric. So I think that can be my outer shell, except down low. Maybe cedar framing. The floor could be a foam sandwich or “torsion box” with 1/4” skins?

Cheers,
Matthew

[KCStudly]

If you build a SIP floor, you should have no issues with cantilevering over your existing frame (so long as the lower section has a rigid front wall... and perhaps well tied in bulkheads under your seating/bed platform). With a stiff floor made rigid be "the box" you'd be surprised... the box stiffens the chassis, not the other way around.

"But wait", you say, "Kev, doesn't your build use a full perimeter frame?" Yes it does, but my main reasons for that were based on simple geometry (i.e. ease of building) and armor against rough terrain.

I do agree that you shouldn't go too wide. Not so much because of aero, but because your axle looks narrow. Go too wide and it might not be very stable.

[Paintsalot]

If you build a SIP floor, you should have no issues with cantilevering over your existing frame (so long as the lower section has a rigid front wall...

Thanks Mr Kev The front wall will be rigid, up to about 24 inches, then it will fold down above that. 24 inches should be plenty of a "beam"- it will run all around except at doorway. I might have a raised threshold at door, we'll see. Yes, will tie in bulkheads under bench.

About the width- thinking of going to 64 inches max to outside. Trailer is 48, so overhanging 8 inches each side. That's to fit in a trifold queen mattress. And just to feel spacious. Once it's all folded down, everything will be low.

Matthew

[S. Heisley]

I remember reading somewhere here that a builder should not cantilever both width and length but I don't remember if the "why" was given.
I'm guessing it has to do with wind pushing under the deck when traveling?
If anybody knows or has information on this, please comment. We want our new friend to be safe.

[Paintsalot]

a builder should not cantilever both width and length but I don't remember if the "why" was given.

Thanks Sharon- I’ve worked in architecture design most of my life- here are my 2 cents from that arena: in building construction you have to be careful cantilevering two directions because it can leave the corner unsupported, unless you intentionally frame it out with beams. See this video https://youtu.be/q5ktFVXZXcs

As far as uplift goes, I definitely will need something for the roof since it’s a separate piece. I will have to have some kind of buckles or straps all around so it doesn’t go flying off like a sail, especially if I make it out of wood and fabric!!

I’m very appreciative of your wanting me to be safe!