3D Printer for Christmas?

[Tom&Shelly]

Shelly and I are thinking of giving each other/ourselves a 3D printer for Christmas. Shelly has done most of the research, and thinks this may be a good one for our price range, an Anycubic Photon Mono High Speed 4K:

https://www.anycubic.com/collections/3d ... 9764755618

She wants it to print miniatures (doll house stuff). I don't know what I want one for yet, but pretty sure I'll find some uses.

The lower resolution printer gets good reviews, and this one seems to be just on the market, so not much is out there yet.

So, does anyone have experience with Anycubic? Any with this model, or the lower resolution model? Any comments positive or otherwise? Anything in general we should be looking for with 3D printers?

Thank you all!

Tom

[tony.latham]

I know nothing about the printer... but...

I don't know what I want one for yet, but pretty sure I'll find some uses.

I design a lotta my stuff using Sketchup. But frequently I find stuff here I want to print:

https://www.thingiverse.com/

Tony

[RJ Howell]

Is the wash n cure machine required?

[celadon]

Hi, this is celadon's husband. She saw this topic and asked if I had any feedback - I've got a resin printer and an FDM (hot melty plastic) printer and would be happy to give some input on the Anycubic you're asking about.

Anycubic's a good brand. Anycubic, Phrozen, and Elegoo are the "big three" in hobbyist resin printing but realistically any resin printer is going to be similar. They're mechanically dead simple compared to other types of 3D printers. The difference is in the LCD and there are three factors to consider:

• Size: consider what you're interested in making, then determine whether it'll fit on the build plate. Dollhouse furniture, miniatures for gaming, and things like that would work on just about any resin printer on the market. If you're into cosplay and printing entire human-scale superhero masks in one shot there are printers that'll do it but they're very expensive compared to something like the Anycubics.
• Mono vs non-mono: Mono LCDs emit a smaller spectrum of light around the UV wavelength than non-mono LCDs and so can produce more UV per milliwatt, which means shorter exposure times per print layer. Translation: they're faster.
• 2K vs 4K: 4K (high resolution) LCDs pack more smaller pixels per inch than their 2K (low resolution) counterparts, which means that they can light up smaller individual areas. The thing is, 2K resin printers are already so high resolution that this may not be actually visible to the naked eye.

Is the wash n cure machine required?

Not really but they're incredibly useful. Washing can be done in any container that is resistant to isopropyl alcohol (tupperware, pyrex, normal glass) and is big enough to fit the model and stir around. Curing can be done with any source of UV light, including Mr. Golden Sun. The wash n cure machines are handy for two reasons: first, the washing is done in a magnetically stirred container so the agitation is going to be good every time, and second, the UV LEDs are specifically tuned for resin curing and so will cure faster, plus the machine will prevent stray UV from getting into your eyes which is really dangerous.

And on that topic, I tell this to anyone who asks me about resin printers and I cannot stress this enough:

RESIN IS A HAZARDOUS TOXIC MATERIAL

Resin is an eye irritant and a skin irritant, and direct exposure to UV light will damage your eyes. Curing resin with UV light is exothermic - it heats up when it cures - which means you do not want resin to cure on your skin because it will burn you. Resin is a progressive toxin and repeated exposure to skin can make you develop severe allergic reactions to it. You MUST wear nitrile gloves - not latex, resin goes right through it - and safety glasses while handling liquid resin and unwashed and uncured prints. You MUST NOT dispose of uncured resin in general waste disposal because it is hazardous material. NEVER pour unused resin or used washing fluid down the drain. Dispose of used gloves, paper towels, uncured resin bits, and unused liquid resin as though you were disposing of lead acid batteries according to your municipality's regulations. The only safe resin to touch with bare skin or dispose of in the general waste stream is fully cured resin. DO NOT ALLOW CHILDREN OR PETS NEAR A WORKING RESIN PRINTER.

I don't mean to scare anyone off but I take this very seriously

I love my resin printer and I use it on a regular basis. I'd get a larger one if I had the room for it in my workspace. If you're conscious of the risks and are willing to put in the work to make the process safe then it's a lot of fun and you can make some amazingly detailed and cool things. Have fun with it, and if you've got any further questions please ask!

[Squigie]

I have two FDM machines that I use for prototyping and making tools and fixtures. I haven't been doing this "since the beginning," but have been designing parts for FDM printing since 2012 and printing my own since 2013.
I also have some contacts that occasionally use SLS machines to 'print' parts for me in metal.
I have many friends with resin printers, but nothing that I do would hold up if printed in resin.

I look at it this way:
SLA (resin) is for low stress items, particularly those with a lot of fine detail.
FDM (plastic squirt) is for medium stress items. It is easiest to manage an FDM machine when printing things without much detail, but a properly tuned machine will have no problem printing very decent figurines and model details.
SLS (metal) is for low to medium stress items, when plastic is not suitable. But it still suffers brittleness, warpage, and shrinkage; unless you have a high dollar machine and the post-processing equipment for proper heat treating.

Anycubics are decent, and very appropriate for your wife's desired use - so long as the parts will fit in the print volume.
If she has the motivation, she might even be able to turn it into a source of income.
The single most popular use of resin printers, right now, is printing "Warhammer 40k" figurines - that sell for $35-90 each.
Keep in mind that small print volume, though. It is tiny.

I don't remember exact dimensions off the top of my head, but I consider the print volume on my two FDM machines to be pretty small. One is capable of roughly 9x8x11", and the other, slightly larger, ~9x9x13".
I have had several projects where I had to stop thinking about it as a 'build plate', and remember to consider the 'volume'. Strange orientations of parts, angled and skewed to just barely fit in the volume. They couldn't fit on the build plate if flat/level.
But, of course, I'm prototyping and making tools, not doll furniture and figurines.

If you and your wife haven't used slicing software before, you should watch some videos from people doing similar things and get some recommendations for a slicer from the doll/modeling communities. I imagine custom supports would be helpful for the intended application.

[Tom&Shelly]

Thank you all for the great advice and suggestions!

Shelly decided to go with the lower resolution model, mainly because it looks (to her) like replacement parts will be less expensive. It should meet our (her) needs.

Hi, this is celadon's husband. I tell this to anyone who asks me about resin printers and I cannot stress this enough:

RESIN IS A HAZARDOUS TOXIC MATERIAL

Resin is an eye irritant and a skin irritant, and direct exposure to UV light will damage your eyes. Curing resin with UV light is exothermic - it heats up when it cures - which means you do not want resin to cure on your skin because it will burn you. Resin is a progressive toxin and repeated exposure to skin can make you develop severe allergic reactions to it. You MUST wear nitrile gloves - not latex, resin goes right through it - and safety glasses while handling liquid resin and unwashed and uncured prints. You MUST NOT dispose of uncured resin in general waste disposal because it is hazardous material. NEVER pour unused resin or used washing fluid down the drain. Dispose of used gloves, paper towels, uncured resin bits, and unused liquid resin as though you were disposing of lead acid batteries according to your municipality's regulations. The only safe resin to touch with bare skin or dispose of in the general waste stream is fully cured resin. DO NOT ALLOW CHILDREN OR PETS NEAR A WORKING RESIN PRINTER.

I don't mean to scare anyone off but I take this very seriously ...

Have fun with it, and if you've got any further questions please ask!

Thank you celadon's Husband! We will definitely respect the safety matters with the resin and UV light. (I worked with lasers for half my career--it would be embarrassing to blind myself in retirement! ) How bad are the fumes? We have several places we can use this, one is in the back room of our basement/garage, which has no windows and so poor ventilation (although we can fix that if necessary). Another possible location is in the front, where we do woodworking, and can open the garage doors and windows, but, of course, we have to deal with sawdust in that room.

Anycubics are decent, and very appropriate for your wife's desired use - so long as the parts will fit in the print volume.
If she has the motivation, she might even be able to turn it into a source of income.
The single most popular use of resin printers, right now, is printing "Warhammer 40k" figurines - that sell for $35-90 each.

Using this as a source of income is on Shelly's radar. We know nothing of Warhammer, but she is very much getting into 1/12 scale doll house furniture and similar items. We even visited a few stores and trade shows this past Summer to see what others are doing and selling. I happen to have a small collection of antique telephones and a few vacuum tube radios, and it would be interesting to try and scale them, and print good resolution models. Some folks like to assemble period doll houses and dioramas. (Personally, it seems like trains or airplanes ought to be involved, but to each their own!)

Shelly just reminded me: At one of the trade shows, we saw, among other things, a 3D printed chandelier for $400!

I design a lotta my stuff using Sketchup. But frequently I find stuff here I want to print:

https://www.thingiverse.com/

Thank you Tony. Shelly's plans include learning Sketchup. I think I remember you found those screw driver bit holders on thingiverse.

Again, thank you all! Love to keep this thread going with other comments...

Tom

[tony.latham]

Shelly's plans include learning Sketchup.

You'll have to add an extension to Sketchup to be able to export a design as an STL file for 3D printing.

Here's a flashlight holder for your Tacoma (in case you keep it) that I designed.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5010455



Tony

[Squigie]

(Personally, it seems like trains or airplanes ought to be involved, but to each their own!)

Resin printers are the go-to for model train detail, and for custom shells and vehicles in N scale and smaller. (And model making details and parts, in general.)
There's a market for that stuff, too.
Several of the (small) commercial companies that made their names with resin castings are now printing everything. It is slower and results in a more expensive product, but the detail and consistency are substantially greater. Much less warpage, too.

[Capebuild]

Hello Tom. If I read the price correctly, $450, including wash station; that seems like a very inexpensive printer and a pretty good deal. As a comparison, you can look at the Formlabs printer($3500 when I bought one for work several years ago). That also required a special heat chamber to post cure the model. If you're not all that familiar with SLA technology you can google Formlabs and compare the printer you're interested in with the Formlabs to see what the differences might be. The SLA process has been evolving pretty rapidly over the past few years to include the hobby market. I’d also suggest looking at FDM technology as well (less messy not using resins but solid plastic filament) but not as refined detail as the SLA technology (look at Makerbot, although maybe more $$, but there are other less expensive FDM machines out there too). Good luck with whatever machine you wind up getting. They’re a lot of fun and it’s great to make parts for “everything”. The other thing is the resin machines usually have a variety of resins with different properties such as flexible, rigid, nylon filled, etc.. I also have a fairly robust Stratasys FDM printer which also makes strong reliable parts (think high tech glue gun). Cool technology.

John

[Tom&Shelly]

Hello Tom. If I read the price correctly, $450, including wash station; that seems like a very inexpensive printer and a pretty good deal. As a comparison, you can look at the Formlabs printer($3500 when I bought one for work several years ago). That also required a special heat chamber to post cure the model. If you're not all that familiar with SLA technology you can google Formlabs and compare the printer you're interested in with the Formlabs to see what the differences might be. The SLA process has been evolving pretty rapidly over the past few years to include the hobby market. I’d also suggest looking at FDM technology as well (less messy not using resins but solid plastic filament) but not as refined detail as the SLA technology (look at Makerbot, although maybe more $$, but there are other less expensive FDM machines out there too). Good luck with whatever machine you wind up getting. They’re a lot of fun and it’s great to make parts for “everything”. The other thing is the resin machines usually have a variety of resins with different properties such as flexible, rigid, nylon filled, etc.. I also have a fairly robust Stratasys FDM printer which also makes strong reliable parts (think high tech glue gun). Cool technology.

John

Thank you John. Shelly wanted resin vs FDM for now, because she wants the detail the resin machines provide for her doll house stuff. If we want to make tooling and things with similar strength later, we may buy an FDM machine as well (at least in our perfect world).

Not knowing anything about miniatures myself, I was impressed with the differences in detail in different items being sold. (Things like period kitchen appliances, for example.) The more detailed clearly were better looking--something that in a photo, without other visual clues, would look like a full size unit. That's what Shelly is striving for.

As an example, last year for Christmas she made dioramas for some of her family members. Here are some purses that went into one (some sort of store)



(Note the penny for scale.) She tells me these could sell for as much as real purses, which, I'm told, can reach values unimaginable to the male of the species!

Seriously, I would never have the patience necessary for that sort of detailed work.

Tom

[Tom&Shelly]

Shelly's plans include learning Sketchup.

You'll have to add an extension to Sketchup to be able to export a design as an STL file for 3D printing.

Here's a flashlight holder for your Tacoma (in case you keep it) that I designed.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5010455



Tony

Thank you Tony. I wonder how that will do on a resin based printer? We may have to try...

Tom

[tony.latham]

I wonder how that will do on a resin based printer?

You'll be walking a trail I have not trodden.

Tony

[celadons_husband]

Thank you celadon's Husband!

I just went ahead and made an account for myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

We will definitely respect the safety matters with the resin and UV light. (I worked with lasers for half my career--it would be embarrassing to blind myself in retirement! ) How bad are the fumes? We have several places we can use this, one is in the back room of our basement/garage, which has no windows and so poor ventilation (although we can fix that if necessary). Another possible location is in the front, where we do woodworking, and can open the garage doors and windows, but, of course, we have to deal with sawdust in that room.

People have very different opinions on this. Some people claim they can't stand the smell, some people claim they can't sense it at all. Personally I don't mind the odor, it's just plastic-chemical if that makes sense. From a safety standpoint there hasn't been a lot of research (that I am aware of) into the volatiles that off-gas during SLA printing. The safest bet is to keep it in a ventilated area and away from living space so that you aren't spending a lot of time inhaling around it.

One thing to keep in mind is that resin printing is sensitive to the ambient temperature of the room. The resin vat should stay at or above 65*-70*F. If you go lower than that the resin curing is inhibited and the resin itself may separate during the print.

I wonder how that will do on a resin based printer? We may have to try...

Probably pretty well! Resin printing is similar to FDM printing in that it doesn't deal well with overhanging and unsupported features, and a blocky cylinder doesn't have any features like that to complicate printing. Cured resin does tend to be brittle, however. With a large part you might not notice but I'm forever breaking little gaming minis if I'm not careful

Like capebuild said there are resins out there with different mechanical properties. If you find yourself needing such a thing, like for strength and/or flexibility, Siraya Tech engineering resins are a good name in that field.

I also have some contacts that occasionally use SLS machines to 'print' parts for me in metal.

Sintering printers are so cool. Adam Savage had an Iron Man suit SLS printed in titanium for one of his TV shows a couple years back. I've heard they're messy beasts to operate and of course expensive to boot. Much better to have a friend with one than to have it yourself!

[Capebuild]

Tom, the purses Shelly made are pretty incredible. Very nice!
From my experience, there's no question the resin based printers (SLA for example) do produce a higher quality of detail and surface finish. If you google around for Make Magazine they usually have a round up buyers guide kind of thing for all types of printers showing prices, features, comparisons, etc.. A good resource.
The other thing I'll mention, most printers come with software that will take your STL file and "prepare it" for printing. Some softwares are not as "friendly" or robust as others.
So you may want to delve into that a little to see how easy and efficient the software is. Just a thought.

John

[Squigie]

Sintering printers are so cool. Adam Savage had an Iron Man suit SLS printed in titanium for one of his TV shows a couple years back. I've heard they're messy beasts to operate and of course expensive to boot. Much better to have a friend with one than to have it yourself!

No joke.