Worms

[Arne]

A kid in CT has been selling worms with a sign on his front lawn. After 4 years, the town told him yesterday to take the sign down or be arrested.

A relative contacted all the news media including the Boston Globe and New York times... so far, the kid and his step father have been interviewed by Fox News, NBC, Reuters and the Associated Press...

I'll bet those selectmen are wondering what the hell happened... don't mess with a kid and his worms..!

[thobbs]

way to squash a kids ambition! They did the same to my brother when he tried to sell homemade suckers in Jr High. He was taking revenue from the cafeteria vending machines.

[Steve_Cox]

I bet the kid hasn't paid a dime in self employment tax or income tax. Thanks to the national media the IRS will be on his case for sure.

[Arne]

This hit every local news channel last night.. one started out with "what's next, lemonade stands?"...

http://www.wfsb.com/news/9663155/detail.html#

[Ira]

Arne, wanna hear how retarded this country can be at times when it comes to "laws?"

(Texans--please chime in. I saw this story on Lou Dobbs [CNN] the night before last.)

Two U.S. border patrolmen (Mexico-U.S. border) were pursuing a drug smuggler, but for all they knew, they were smuggling people into the U.S. When inspected, their van/suv "only" had a couple of hundred pounds of weed.

And while I believe that weed is God's creation and that it should be legal, I appreciate the fact that we have law enforcement agencies who ENFORCE the laws, right or wrong.

Anyway, the van/SUV stopped, the guy got out and ran here, there, and here again, whatever the scenario--and they shot him in the ass. It wasn't a life-threatening shot in the ass or anything, not like it went straight up his rectum--which would have been hysterical. They just clipped him on his ass cheek.

And some state/county/barrio DA is charging the Border Patrolmen with SERIOUS stuff. I think human rights violations, whatever, but I couldn't BELIEVE what I was watching and what may happen to these two guys just for doing their jobs.

Okay Texans--now give us the REAL facts on this story. I'm sure you've heard a lot more about it than the rest of us.

[TomS]

Ira,

It doesn't matter if the bullet simply grazed the suspect in the ass. If you shoot someone, it's considered deadly force.

There are a very narrow set of circumstances where a poice officer, or a civilian for that matter, can use deadly force. In a nutshell, the shooter must have a "reasonable fear of death or grave bodily harm" to himself or others.

Your story suggests that the dope smuggler was simply running away. There was no mention of him brandishing a weapon or making threats. If these facts are correct, the shooting was completely unjustified and the local DA is very justified in pressing charges.

Do we really want the cops shooting civilians without consequences?

[asianflava]

I just heard a short blurb on Lou Dobbs last night.

It sounds as stupid as the thief who sued the person he was robbing because he tripped on something and broke his foot during the robbery.

[Chris C]

By the way, Rocky, that very thing happened here in Oklahoma about 6 or 7 years ago, I think. This guy was breaking into a house and entering through a window he broke. As he crawled through the window, he knocked over both a lamp and an aquariam at the same time. He was barefoot (telling police he left his shoes in the get away car so he wouldn't leave running shoe tracks outside the window in the garden). Of course, when he stepped onto the carpet covered with both broken glass and now electrified water, he suffered lacerations and was shocked so severely that now (back whenever that was) he suffers from seizures. This all occured during the middle of the night, and the 80's something homeowner came into the dark room where all the noise was and shot the fella. It was only a superficial wound. The burglar sued the homeowner's insurace and actually won, I think. And to make matters worse, the homeowner was charged for the shooting of an "innocent" man because his life wasn't threatened.

Ahhh, our laws are certainly biased toward the criminal element, huh?

[jay]

rect'em?

damned near killed 'em!

[TomS]

I checked out Lou Dobbs piece on the border shooting incident tonight. The agents were convicted by jury in Fedreal court and are awaiting sentencing.

For anyone who is interested, here is a statement from the Department of Justice about the prosecution.

After reading the DOJ document, I think these agents are guilty. First, they didn't report the shooting as requied by policy. Second, they returned to the scene of the incident and removed all empty shell casings. That behavior leads me to believe that these guys are guilty as sin. Honest cops don't tamper with criime scenes.

[Ira]

Tom, I just read it.

And although I didn't go over it with a fine-tooth comb, I think there's a bunch of stuff in there that although believed to be true at trial, you can sure say that it might not have happened that way.

(And now that you mentioned the fact that they WERE convicted, I remembered that fact.)

But I think that this prosecution had more to do with political niceness toward Fox and Mexico than an actual crime where it was proven WITHOUT A DOUBT that these officers were guilty of a crime.

I'll print it out later and study the facts in what is here, after all, a press release.

But is the guy being extradited to the U.S. for drug smuggling now that his tushy is all better?

And Tom, I don't think there ARE a narrow set of circumstances where one can use deadly force. And in this case, they didn't anyway--cause the guy didn't die. (And yes, this distinction does matter in court.)

If you THINK a suspect has a gun, or you BELIEVE you are in danger and can prove why, police officer and civilian alike are allowed to use deadly force. If a guy breaks into your house in the middle of the night, and you have a gun, you can blow his head off, whther he had a gun or not. Youjust have to prove you felt that he did.

Because depending where you live, and whether the criminal was white or black, or whether YOU'RE white or black, it can go either way in court.

I can't believe I'm saying all of this and I'm such a liberal. Maybe theyre going to make me turn in my card.

[Nitetimes]

I can't believe I'm saying all of this and I'm such a liberal. Maybe theyre going to make me turn in my card.

Maybe you are just growing out of it, it's bound to happen sooner or later!

[Laredo]

You don't grow out of being a liberal -- you can grow out of being a conservative, just like you can grow out of being a bigot or any other form of arrogant ignorance. Texas law says this:

CIVIL PRACTICE & REMEDIES CODE
CHAPTER 83. USE OF DEADLY FORCE IN DEFENSE OF PERSON
Sec. 83.001. AFFIRMATIVE DEFENSE. It is an affirmative defense to a civil action for damages for personal injury or death that the defendant, at the time the cause of action arose, was justified in using deadly force under Section 9.32, Penal Code, against a person who at the time of the use of force was committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the defendant.
Added by Acts 1995, 74th Leg., ch. 235, Sec. 2, eff. Sept. 1, 1995.

Most PDs and SOs in Texas operate under rules similar to the UCMJ: you can respond to deadly force with deadly force. It is not reasonable to employ deadly force unless you believe your own life or that of another person is under direct immediate deadly threat.

[Miriam C.]

Goodness,
I thought all states had laws forbiding the shooting of a fleeing person. Running away doesn't constitute a threat unless there are others in dangered by the person fleeing.

Being liberal or conservative shouldn't interfere with a natural, healthy fear of tyranny and shooting unarmed people is surely tyranny.

Miriam

[Steve_Cox]

Being liberal or conservative shouldn't interfere with a natural, healthy fear of tyranny and shooting unarmed people is surely tyranny.

Miriam

You are correct Miriam, it shouldn't, but sometimes it clouds the vision of what tyranny actually is. I know my definition of tyranny is much different than, say.....an ultra right wing extremist. I see tyranny in our own government, rationalizing that it is OK to torture people, how absurd.

I bet this thread won't have a very long life if I continue, sorry folks. I know when the government death squads come for me I want to be facing them when they shoot at me, not shot in the buttocks.