I'm at another moral crossroads...

[Tear Fan]

Wow . . . That was interesting . . . So, anyway, don't y'all believe that we are born with the knowledge of good and evil and taught to ignore this knowledge by "the world?" Can't you just tell when something is a little hinky, or do you need a law on which to base your decision?

Marvin

[Ira]

Joseph, NOW I'm happy!

And Marvin, you really hit the perfect final note for this, if you just juxtapose what you posted:

Just because it's a law, does THAT make it MORALLY wrong?

This is the kind of crap they should be teaching us in grammar school--how to think for ourselves. And with all due respect to Andrew and our other beloved Yurps here, to hell with wasting time in school learning that stupid metric system. After 50 years, I STILL don't understand it!

(Newbies: "Yurps" is our shortcut here for "Europeans," because we're too lazy to type those extra 4 letters. It's either that reason or just because it sounds pretty funny.)

[cracker39]

So, anyway, don't y'all believe that we are born with the knowledge of good and evil and taught to ignore this knowledge by "the world?"
Marvin

I don't believe that any child born, if left to grow up without any moral or ethical guidance whatsoever, would naturally know "right" from "wrong". Ethics and morals are learned, not inherited (IMHO anyway).

Joseph,

I get a kick out seeing Lazurus Long qouted. I love those quotations. Old Lazurus (or Robert) seemed to have some of the same moral and ethical view as I do. Time Enough For Love was my favorite of his novels.

As for the intelligent and sometimes provocative discourses in this thread, Lazurus said "Being intelligent is not a felony. But most societies evaluate it as at least a misdemeanor. " I'm happy to see that we have a lot of intelligent "criminals" on this forum.

[Joseph]

Joseph, NOW I'm happy!

OH good!

And Marvin, you really hit the perfect final note for this, if you just juxtapose what you posted:
Just because it's a law, does THAT make it MORALLY wrong?

OK, ya lost me there. Are you telling me you don't have a gut feeling for right and wrong? And that just because it's legal, that makes it morally right? Consider the recent debacle regarding eminent domain before you answer...

This is the kind of crap they should be teaching us in grammar school--how to think for ourselves.

"Why don't they teach logic in these schools?" The Professor, The Lion the Witch and the Wardrobe, C. S. Lewis.
Oh drat - we're agreeing again!

And with all due respect to Andrew and our other beloved Yurps here, to hell with wasting time in school learning that stupid metric system. After 50 years, I STILL don't understand it!

The thing about the metric system is that you do NOT have to learn to convert between English and metric. For instance, I know a mile is about so far, a klick is about that far. I know about how long an inch is and about how long a centimeter is. I don't need the math to compare the two, because THAT particular bit of information is useless.

Joseph

[Micro469]

I have wifi at home, but have it locked down tite... One time I was working on rebuilding a laptop for a customer and found 3 wifi connections wide open in an industrial park.It's amazing how many businesses don't have proper IT consultants who can lock down their WIFI. This leaves them wide open for hackers. Can you imagine what kind of damage can be done to a business??

[GHOSTSSX]

It's not just wi-fi

If you have your firewall off and shared folders and are on cable....you can be seen and accessed!

When I first got cable modem a few years back(before WinXP) I could see several peoples C root share and printers.

Right now I can see 5 unsecured AP's..one's called Den and one's called Bedroom. No webcam though....

"Let's be careful out there"

CHUCK

[Ira]

Are you telling me you don't have a gut feeling for right and wrong? And that just because it's legal, that makes it morally right?

Like Dale says above, we learn this stuff; it's not in our genes. So any gut feelings I have for right or wrong are based on that learning, or my interpretation of that learning.

And again, the "morally right" part is the slippery slope here. Not everyone uses the same yardstick, and there really isn't always a clear "right" or "wrong."

For instance, is it morally wrong for me to be screwing off at work so much posting here, even though I'm still getting all of my work done and then some? If the answer is yes, I propse that if I DIDN'T post here, I would be one miserable SOB and go postal.

[Joseph]

And again, the "morally right" part is the slippery slope here. Not everyone uses the same yardstick, and there really isn't always a clear "right" or "wrong."

The key word in this statement is "always." No, there isn't always a clearly defined defintion of right and wrong in each and every situation. However, going back to your original question: your son was doing something that bothered you because you thought (correctly) that it was illegal, but apparently, whether it was or not, it also bothered your concience because it "just doesn't feel right anyway." Hence, the "last resort" of the legal was unnecessary.

But we're focusing entirely on morality, which is only half of the equation. If you go back to my original quote, laws are a last resort where morality and civility have failed. Civility is that aspect of human relations that causes people (such as you and I) of vastly differing opinions (and possibly even morals) to treat one another with respect and courtesy despite their differences. The man who blows up an abortion clinic may be obeying some kind of twisted moral code, but he is certainly not being civil.

Joseph
"I believe that a man has an obligation to be merciful to the weak ... patient with the stupid ... generous with the poor. I think he is obliged to lay down his life for his brothers, should it be required of him. But I don't propose to prove any of those things; they are beyond proof. And I don't demand that you believe as I do." Robert Heinlein, If This Goes On