Nice Political Honesty

[Dewayne_Mellen]

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Quote:
They refused. Clinton lacked a case to indict him in U.S. courts.

I heard him say that too and it is patently absurd. He certainly had a case to lob Tomahawk missles at him. The fact is, he simply didn't want to deal with it and came up with a typical Clinton excuse for not doing so.
[quote]

The offer to turn Bin Laden over was in 96 and he hadn't been linked to any American deaths yet per the Washington post.  The bombings what were linked to Bin Laden occured in 98. (per snopes)  [/quote]

[madjack]

Why did I vote for Clinton twice...because the Republicans had (or where going to) have control of both houses of Congress

Um... excuse me? Republicans didn't control either House of Congress untill 1995. So care to run that by me again for '92?

and any 50+yr old man who can get a BJ from a bouncy early 20yr old while enjoying pizza and a good cigar is OK in my book...maybe stupid but still OK

Hindsight of course being 20-20 - while getting that BJ and enjoying that pizza and cigar he was ignoring what was going on in the middle-east. 9/11 was the result.

Joseph

I voted for Clinton the first time because of 3 reasons, the first was 12 years of Republican Presidents and their version of trickle down economics or "piss on you" policies...it was time to let someone else take the country inna different direction for a while. George the 1st, the patrician, who couldn't tell you the price of a loaf of bread, talk about out of touch with the "people" and I could see the "newt" on the wall and practiced my own version of pre-emptive strikes.

To blame Clinton for 9-11 is absolutely preposterous Republican hogwash to deflect attention for their own lies, deceit and failed Middle East policies...every politician, going back to WWI shares a bit of blame for todays "war on terror"..including the previous couple of centuries of Imperialism by the Europeon powers...Maybe if a crazily obsessed Republican henchman(Starr) had not overstepped his mandate, Clinton may have been much more focused on the realities at hand...The same Realities that were at hand when the Republicans and their myoptic Neo-Con vision took over.

My voting philosophy, in absence of any alternative, strong 3rd party has been to "vote the bums" out...neither party should remain in control for an extended period of time...the Republicans leaning towards a Big Business controlled regimented state and the Democrats leaning towards an Entitlement dominated welfare state...oh god for term limits and a viable option to the ruling parties(class) of this country...where oh where are the Thomas Jeffersons and Ben Franklins when ya really need them....
madjack

[stbuch]

Can anybody jump in here? I am proud to call myself a liberal, even though I take tons of flack for my beliefs here in the Bible belt. I have been a life-long Democrat and I support the party. I also am offended by the stance of some right-wingers that only they have a direct line to GOD and that somehow a Christian Democrat like myself might be allowed to sit at the back of the church...
Politicians always say, "Are you better off today than..." Well, my family and in my opinion, our country, was better off under Clinton than Bush. Others may disagree and that is their right, but it is also my right to believe that there are definitely "haves" and "have-nots" in this country. The ostrich mentality that allows people to turn the other way when a hurricane hits a predominantly black city and make people wait a week for help is totally inexcusable. The mentality that everyone has an equal shot to make it in the good ole U.S.A. is a crock.

Whew! Jumping off the soapbox now.

Sherrie

[Ira]

Can anybody jump in here? I am proud to call myself a liberal, even though I take tons of flack for my beliefs here in the Bible belt. I have been a life-long Democrat and I support the party. I also am offended by the stance of some right-wingers that only they have a direct line to GOD and that somehow a Christian Democrat like myself might be allowed to sit at the back of the church...
Politicians always say, "Are you better off today than..." Well, my family and in my opinion, our country, was better off under Clinton than Bush. Others may disagree and that is their right, but it is also my right to believe that there are definitely "haves" and "have-nots" in this country. The ostrich mentality that allows people to turn the other way when a hurricane hits a predominantly black city and make people wait a week for help is totally inexcusable. The mentality that everyone has an equal shot to make it in the good ole U.S.A. is a crock.

Whew! Jumping off the soapbox now.

Sherrie

Sherrie...will you marry me?

I'm not saying you would want to, or that my wife would allow it, but I now feel really compelled to ask anyway.

[stbuch]

My husband might object, although he's not as liberal as I and we don't always see eye to eye on political matters! He fluctuates between an odd mix of Socialist and Libertarian ideas!

Sherrie

[madjack]

Can anybody jump in here? I am proud to call myself a liberal, even though I take tons of flack for my beliefs here in the Bible belt. I have been a life-long Democrat and I support the party. I also am offended by the stance of some right-wingers that only they have a direct line to GOD and that somehow a Christian Democrat like myself might be allowed to sit at the back of the church...
Politicians always say, "Are you better off today than..." Well, my family and in my opinion, our country, was better off under Clinton than Bush. Others may disagree and that is their right, but it is also my right to believe that there are definitely "haves" and "have-nots" in this country. The ostrich mentality that allows people to turn the other way when a hurricane hits a predominantly black city and make people wait a week for help is totally inexcusable. The mentality that everyone has an equal shot to make it in the good ole U.S.A. is a crock.

Whew! Jumping off the soapbox now.

Sherrie

Sherrie, you will get no argument fromme except for the parts in bold print...Republicans had nothing to do with what happened in NO per se...no one waited a week...relief poured into the city 4 days after the disaster struck...about 2 days late...after a week virtually everyone who wanted to, had been evacuated...the major blame for what happened in NO, has to fall squarely on the shoulders of a glad handing, inept, BLACK DEMOCRATIC MAYOR...he not only abandoned his city to go party in Baton Rouge, he abandoned the plan to help those left behind (who mostly choose to stay, by the way). Second in the blame game, is an inept, hand wringing Govenor, who cried "oh woe is me" instead of stepping upto the plate and taking decisive action in a timely manner. Third was an inept bureaucracy, that was more interested in turf battles about who was in control and sound bites than helping those in need...these three share almost equal blame for the fiasco that occured during relief operations in NO......
madjack

[kirtsjc]

As a conservative/libertarian I agree with Robert Heinlein

Perhaps a new political party is needed... Heinleinism.

I suggest all read his book "Starship Troopers" about our franchise...

Funny how Heinlein worked LOTS of commentary and politics into each and every book of his...

[stbuch]

I had no idea until recently that many residents thought that the levys (spelling?) had been blown on purpose to save wealthier neighborhoods. I also did not know that this had been done years before in a similar situation.

Mad Jack,
I'm sure as a resident of LA you know much more about this than I, it just seemed to me that a lot of those people at the Superdome wanted to go elsewhere.

Sherrie

[Nitetimes]

Mad Jack,
I'm sure as a resident of LA you know much more about this than I, it just seemed to me that a lot of those people at the Superdome wanted to go elsewhere.

Sherrie

And so they should have, long before the storm actually hit and refilled the bowl with water. They were warned after all.

[Miriam C.]

Can anybody jump in here? I am proud to call myself a liberal, even though I take tons of flack for my beliefs here in the Bible belt. I have been a life-long Democrat and I support the party. I also am offended by the stance of some right-wingers that only they have a direct line to GOD and that somehow a Christian Democrat like myself might be allowed to sit at the back of the church...
Politicians always say, "Are you better off today than..." Well, my family and in my opinion, our country, was better off under Clinton than Bush. Others may disagree and that is their right, but it is also my right to believe that there are definitely "haves" and "have-nots" in this country. The ostrich mentality that allows people to turn the other way when a hurricane hits a predominantly black city and make people wait a week for help is totally inexcusable. The mentality that everyone has an equal shot to make it in the good ole U.S.A. is a crock.

Whew! Jumping off the soapbox now.

Sherrie

Sherrie, you will get no argument fromme except for the parts in bold print...Republicans had nothing to do with what happened in NO per se...no one waited a week...relief poured into the city 4 days after the disaster struck...about 2 days late...after a week virtually everyone who wanted to, had been evacuated...the major blame for what happened in NO, has to fall squarely on the shoulders of a glad handing, inept, BLACK DEMOCRATIC MAYOR...he not only abandoned his city to go party in Baton Rouge, he abandoned the plan to help those left behind (who mostly choose to stay, by the way). Second in the blame game, is an inept, hand wringing Govenor, who cried "oh woe is me" instead of stepping upto the plate and taking decisive action in a timely manner. Third was an inept bureaucracy, that was more interested in turf battles about who was in control and sound bites than helping those in need...these three share almost equal blame for the fiasco that occured during relief operations in NO......
madjack

Can anyone say "Social Experiment."
Take a group of free but trapped people---put them in the convention center.

Take a group of guarded but trapped people---put them in the superdome.

All others are control group.
Politics at it finest. Do they all get to keep office?

[stbuch]

Can anyone say "Social Experiment."
Take a group of free but trapped people---put them in the convention center.

Take a group of guarded but trapped people---put them in the superdome.

All others are control group.
Politics at it finest. Do they all get to keep office?

Gut gemacht! (Well done)

Sherrie

[madjack]

Yes Sherrie, I do know a bit more than many...I was involved in the evacutation and had many friends and family in the NO/Gulf area...some who left and some who didn't...a couple of oft overlooked facts, some from official sources, some ancedotal...2million people lived in the affected areas...1.5 million got up and left...of those who stayed behind 40% were white 60% were black...most(not all) were lower working class and welfare people...many were gangbangers who stayed for "turf" rights...the vast majority chose to stay after repeated warnings even though they had the ability to leave...72 hours before Katrina, the alert went out to evacuate...48 hrs before...a voluntary evacuation was ordered...20 hrs before...a mandatory evacuation was ordered and Mayor Nagin abandoned his city after telling folks that the Superdome and Convention Center were shelters of "last" resort...there were no prepositioned supplies at the Convention Center...there were supplies for 25,000 people for 3 days at the Superdome...Nagin, in his farewell to the city told folks to bring with them, 3 days of food and water if they went to either one of these 2 shelters...folks started arriving at the SuperDome, a shelter of "last resort" 24 hours before the storm hit...most brought suitcases full of personal items but very little food or water...most of the prepsoitioned supplies were gone by the time they were actually needed...mass quantities of food and water were prepositioned at a National Guard Armory...2 blocks from the 17th AVE Canal in the 9thWard, they were among the first to be flooded. Monday afternoon, after the storm hit, Officialdom breathed a sigh of relief that the Lake Ponchitrain levies had not been topped...many folks went to bed not realizing that the 17th Ave levies had failed and the flood was starting...afterwards, there was ONE ROAD into the area and by Tuesday afternoon it was lined with National Guard vehicles loaded with supplies headed to NO...at this point jurisdictional disputes broke out between FEMA and State officials about who was in charge of organization the relief effort and the supplies were held up...at this time as well, almost all helicopters available were involved in search and rescue retrieving 10's of thousands of people from roof tops etc.
Almost all of the above came from official records...you can take my word for it or research it yourself...if you wish I can go on about oficial records or give you pages of first hand view from friends and family who stayed in the city including one of my best friends who spent 2weeks defending his property from looters both official and otherwise in the 9thward or from folks I assisted as they came thru evacuation centers in my home town...the one hero in the higher echelons of officialdom was Gen Honore who showed up Wed afternoon...by Thursday morning he had supplies moving into the Dome and Convention center...the next day the buses started arriving...every school bus in the state was ordered to NO by the Governor...by Monday, most of those who wanted to, had been evacuated...
madjack

[stbuch]

What is so hard for me to understand is how a city so likely to be flooded could be so unprepared for a flood...
Just so you know, I'm not a big fan of politicians or politics. They seem to suck up a lot of money and time that could be better spent elsewhere.
Thanks for the facts, it's good to know that things weren't as bleak as portrayed.

Sherrie

[Ira]

Did anyone see the Spike Lee HBO mini-series on Katrina?

Maybe it was because I was only paying it like 80% attention (other things going on in the house), but it seemed like it was pretty well-balanced--which is usually unlike Spike Lee. I expected it to be a 100% administration-bashing thing, and although there was some of that there, there was plenty of bashing to go around.

The big test though, is what has happened in the past year, and what's going to happen in the next. The fact that so many insurance claims were denied because of the fine print, and that unless the lawsuit(s) are successful, this is going to be a real travesty of justice:

These are not the "scum of the earth" that they're often portrayed as. These are hard-working people who owned homes, paid their insurance premiums, and did everything RIGHT--but the majority of whom happen to be black.

If the govenment doesn't take some kind of a lead on this, and if the rebuilding unjustly favors large corporations, real estate developers and casinos, then there IS going to be a lot of bashing--all justifiable.