Angib? Doug?Len?Steve?Anybody?

[Micro469]

I want to make an outside frame for my slumbercoach but still unsure of how to do it. I want to make it 2" wide and use the longest pieces possible around the curves. I want the pieces joined at a pleasing angle rather than every piece a different angle. What size board should I get,3,6,8" wide and how do I plan the angles they join? I was thinking of picking a spot on the side of the trailer and the running a string to the edge, marking it and moving it to a spot farther down the curve. Is this right? I wish I knew cad, I could show you what I mean.....

[halfdome, Danny]

I want to make an outside frame for my slumbercoach but still unsure of how to do it. I want to make it 2" wide and use the longest pieces possible around the curves. I want the pieces joined at a pleasing angle rather than every piece a different angle. What size board should I get,3,6,8" wide and how do I plan the angles they join? I was thinking of picking a spot on the side of the trailer and the running a string to the edge, marking it and moving it to a spot farther down the curve. Is this right? I wish I knew cad, I could show you what I mean.....

Micro, The longer you make a radius-ed segment of wood the weaker each piece will be and the visual effect will be compromised. I have never done a Slumber coach or any Woodie but I have made lots of furniture and store fixtures using the same method. My suggestion is to keep each radius-ed segment no longer than 18" long. Others my have their own take on this but this is what I would do. When I made the internal frame on my tear I kept segments short. If you use a sliding "T" bevel or protractor you can figure each angle individually and just divide it in half for each piece. Danny

Edit. I would make a template/jig of the whole frame out of 1/2" particle board and draw each joint together with pinch dogs. When you are satisfied with the results you can number each piece and then trace on to your finish wood and saw them out over sized. Then if you have a router with a straight bearing bit just use finish brads to attach your templates and route off the excess. This will work for both sides as all you will need to do is flip over each template for a reversed piece. Danny

[Micro469]

Thanks Danny, I'm not looking at 18" lengths , looking more for 8-10". And what is a T-bevel, and how do you use it????????

[halfdome, Danny]

John, Here is a sliding "T" bevel.

I have one similar to this one and it's better than the ones with the lever on the side. Mine says Stanley on one side & Patd. 7-14-08 on the other side so you know they last. I bought mine used many, many years ago for 5 bucks. They can be used many ways depending on what your after. I would start with a square, assuming you have a full sized template of your profile and draw intersecting lines at desired points then flip the square over and draw a > then divide it in half with the sliding "T" bevel. Take the sliding "T: bevel to your chop saw and lower the "still" blade down and bring around the blade until you touch it flat and not the teeth. I would then record that angle so you will know it when you swing the saw around to cut the matching piece. Danny

[halfdome, Danny]

John, This is what a pinch dog looks like. You hammer them over two adjoining pieces of wood to draw the joint up tight. They are not intended for use on exposed joints rather the back side where the holes will be hidden. They would work wonderful for what you are attempting to accomplish. I use them a lot. Both images are from Woodcraft.com I would purchase the widest board you can find and nest your segments to save on materials, Danny

[sdtripper2]

Danny & John:

I have been watching and reading your thread with interest.

I am not a carpenter and so didn't know that the Sliding T-Bevel Square was.

I have been surfing and see where my lack of knowledge is monumental when it
comes to Danny's bread and butter trade.

Copied from this URL Below
The Bottom Line
There's no way you could call yourself a "carpenter" if you don't have a Sliding T-Bevel Square. Ain't got one? Get one.

Carpenters have an understandable hang-up with angles; which sort of explains all the references to "plumb" and "square" in any literature on the topic. To be certain, the carpenter's squares - framing, try, speed, combination - are all designed in the hope that every corner will be a perfect 90º right angle. The truth is, of course, that right angles are an ideal, but not necessarily a fact, and having to deal with non-square corners and oddball angles is a fact of life.

So, whaddya gonna do when you run into one of those corners that aren't square, especially when you have to built something that fits into it? You're going to pull out your Sliding T-Bevel Square, in my case a Sears Companion Square model 39582 - and you're going to copy that angle to your workpiece. It's that simple.


You see, unlike other kinds of squares, a Sliding T-Bevel doesn't have two arms fixed at 90º from one another. Instead, the t-bevel square's two arms are connected by a pivot so that they can be opened or closed at any angle from one to 180 degrees. There's a fixed arm (the stock) made of wood or plastic - in the case of the Companion 39582 it's made of high-impact plastic - and the other arm is a narrow metal blade (the tongue). The tongue is captive to a pivot that's fixed in the top of the stock, with a thumbscrew on the pivot so the tongue can be locked in place by friction. The tongue can be extended into a letter L shape or shortened up to form a T. When not in use, the tongue rotates into the stock to form a compact I shape for easy storage.

To use a sliding T Bevel Square for copying angles, simply loosen the thumbscrew, open the tongue so that the two arms match the angle, and re-tighten the thumbscrew. With this version of a T bevel, you can loosen and tighten the locking screw one-handed while your other hand steadies a workpiece, holds the square in place, or clings to a ladder for dear life. Once you've copied (and, of course, verified) the angle, you can then either measure the angle with a protractor or just copy it to your piece of molding or other lumber with a pencil. A little work with a standard compass (in the geometry-class sense, not the orienteering sense) will let you bisect the angle for cutting miter joints to fit non-square angles. If you already know the correct angle, you can use a protractor or even a speed square to set the angle between tongue and stock, then transfer it to your workpiece.

Most Sliding T Bevels, including the Sears 39582, have a 45º cut across the tip of the tongue, which makes marking standard miter corners easier. Almost all - if not all - versions have a finger groove in the stock to make them easier to hold.

High-end versions of the Sliding T-Bevel Square have riveted hardwood stocks with brass fittings and stainless steel tongues, occasionally even wooden tongues. The tongue length varies from eight to ten inches (this one has a nine-inch tongue) and occasionally as much as eighteen inches in length.


A Sliding T-Bevel Square will prove invaluable to any carpenter or handyperson who finds the need to reproduce non-square angles. This is one more inexpensive, basic tool that should be in any homeowner's arsenal.



Note: another relatively inexpensive tool that can be very useful for determining angles, especially on large surfaces, is an angle finder. Guess what: I have one of those, too...

Special marking techniques
http://www.volunteerprojects123.org/pri ... y8c5e.html

Other URL's
http://www.sutherlandtool.com/bevelboss.html
http://workshop.bobvila.com/Article/17.html
http://www.rd.com/content/openContent.d ... ntId=12940
http://www.rockler.com/articles/display ... tory_id=94
http://workshop.bobvila.com/AllArticles.html

[Podunkfla]

Danny sure has a good way of laying out miters... Not knocking it at all.
But some of us old carpenters/cabinet guys also do it a rather grude, but effective way by laying out your boards on tour template (or side) overlapping the ends. Then just extend the lines of the board ends and draw a cut line down the middle. Mark and cut the top boards, then use the cut ends to mark the cut on the mating boards. Glue them together with biscuits, pocket screws, whatever. Place your template/side on top and use it as a guide to make the outer cut with router & guide bearing or trace and cut with jig saw. Measure 2" in and make a cut line all the way around or use a router and edge guide to make the inside cut.

[Podunkfla]

There's no way you could call yourself a "carpenter" if you don't have a Sliding T-Bevel Square. Ain't got one? Get one.

Well Steve... It all depends on what you are used to using? I've been a carpenter for a LONG time... and I seldom use a sliding T-bevel. Somehow, I seem to always get the job done.

[doug hodder]

Micro...Danny is right, ideally you don't want a bunch of long pieces, but at this point, it's strictly decorative on the exterior and not a structural thing. To get the angles, when I had the pieces made up, I just split the difference on the curve on the pieces, eyeballed it...a disc sander is great for this...I started at one point, drew the line where it would be perpendicular to the curve, drew a line, cut it and then sanded it on the disc sander till it matched the line....then overlapped the next piece and marked the outer and inner edge of where it overlapped...cut and sand to match...I taped up all the pieces, then went back and marked where I wanted screws and bungs...I put mine 2" in from each end and then put the rest in spaced equally from each other, don't crowd them.

To get the uniform thickness on the pieces (width) I made up a little jig that has 2 curved pieces about 3 inches apart with a piece in the center that extends to the thickness of your frame...I drilled a hole for the pencil and just ran it across the outer frame curve allowing the pencil to mark the 2" thickness...I only cut the outer edge and shape it to meet the profile, then mark the interior and cut it.

Other tools that are handy for this operation...I used a band saw, and an oscillating spindle sander for the inside curve. It can be done with a jig saw easily however...just make sure you sand to the line...Doug

[sdtripper2]

Brick:

There's no way you could call yourself a "carpenter" if you don't have a Sliding T-Bevel Square. Ain't got one? Get one.

Well Steve... It all depends on what you are used to using? I've been a carpenter for a LONG time... and I seldom use a sliding T-bevel. Somehow, I seem to always get the job done.

That quote was from the Sears article I copied. I really didn't know about a
Sliding T-Bevel Square so it was of interest to me that they thought one
would have to have one to be a carpenter.

Brick I will defer to a real carpenter any time as to the use of this tool.
It seems it would be of value if you didn't want to strap boards all up to
make angles such as your picture above. However ... again maybe your
way is the fastest and best way for many carpenters.

It would seem to me that the use of a Sliding T-Bevel Square with the use
of this Bevel Boss straight edge angle finding tool would be a good combo?
Would like to get your opinion and Danny's about the use of these two tools
together?

Bevel Boss

http://www.sutherlandtool.com/bevelboss.html

[Leon]

I had never done anything like that until I built my teardrop, and one thing that gets noticed all the time is the joints on mine. I spent $80 for a router bit to do finger joints and that was one of the best investments I made on my build. Those joints are glued together forever, I made the boards slightly oversized and after joining I sanded them to the final contour making the joint a smooth part of the piece.

[len19070]

John
First off I bought 2X8 Cedar then ripped it to 3/4 X 8.

I placed the pieces around the curve and rough cut them into place.

Then I ran a router with a regular 1/4" cut off bit in between the pieces at rough cuts. With the bit hitting both pieces at once. This made the one side just like the other and the flat joints were perfect.

Next I got a 1/8" slotting bit for the router and put a slot on both pieces at the joint.



Inserted & glued an 1/8" spine in the slot.

Then glued and tacked all the pieces into place to the side of the coach. Later (but not much later) Screwed all the pieces in from the back.

Then came the real work, I sanded the daylights out of the wood.

Another thing is mix some of the sanding dust with some whit glue and use it as a patching paste. After I got everything together there was a big divit in one section of the wood. (I think my son hit it with something) anyway I used this home made paste and you really can not see it.

It was my first time doing this as well. No plans and it didn't come with instructions.

Happy Trails

Len

[halfdome, Danny]

Brick:

There's no way you could call yourself a "carpenter" if you don't have a Sliding T-Bevel Square. Ain't got one? Get one.

Well Steve... It all depends on what you are used to using? I've been a carpenter for a LONG time... and I seldom use a sliding T-bevel. Somehow, I seem to always get the job done.

That quote was from the Sears article I copied. I really didn't know about a
Sliding T-Bevel Square so it was of interest to me that they thought one
would have to have one to be a carpenter.

Brick I will defer to a real carpenter any time as to the use of this tool.
It seems it would be of value if you didn't want to strap boards all up to
make angles such as your picture above. However ... again maybe your
way is the fastest and best way for many carpenters.

It would seem to me that the use of a Sliding T-Bevel Square with the use
of this Bevel Boss straight edge angle finding tool would be a good combo?
Would like to get your opinion and Danny's about the use of these two tools
together?

Bevel Boss

http://www.sutherlandtool.com/bevelboss.html

Steve, I wouldn't mind having one of those scales but I have other tools that get me there. As far as what Brick is saying is basically what I was saying but I chose to include a ( > ) instead of going to all the trouble of a drawing. Doug's method works too and any other method will work if that way makes you comfortable. The end result is what matters. Danny

[Elumia]

Danny, I don't think Brick was knocking your methodology - in fact he stated that clearly. I beleive he was just showing John another way so that he could decide what works for him. I would say that most people may take a bit of each and adapt the method to the tools they have and their own level of expertise. The fact that Brick took the time to make a drawing to show John speaks volumes of to him wanting to help. It sure helped me understand what you both were talking about by seeing a picture.

I appreciate all the info I read here. I think there are a lot of right ways to do things, so long as we do it safe.

Mark

[Micro469]

Thanks guys, it's all been a great help.I really didn't want to start a war over who was a carpenter or not depending on what tools you do or do not have.... I do have a sliding T as a matter of fact, but it's so old and rusty I don't think it will move anymore..... The one tool I wish I got from my Dad was his wooden folding ruler... the last piece slid back and forth... great for inside measurements.. haven't seen one for a while.

Anyway I will use all or part of all advice as the situation and my frustration level calls for...maybe make a template first, and work on it from there. I just hope both sides are the same.... I can't get to the other side of the trailer due to space limitations.....Tried to put the door on, can't get it to open far enough to screw on the hinges... Oh well.