john wrote:Not long ago we in the US used child labor, so did the rest of the world for a thousands of years....on farms. We also used children in factories in this country. I am glad we do not do so now, but it is our wealth as a nation that allows us the choice not to work our children. And I am sure in time as China's wealth grows they will choose as we have.
China and many other nations do not have the wealth to make that choice and I for one will not deny them the choice of working in a factory over starvation. China has a problem with too many people migrating to the cities in search of a better life in, I agree, a horrible factory. This is their individual choice and as such their labor can not be defined as slavery. To do so would lessen the grave reality of what slavery is. I applaud choice in China. It is a move in the right direction
I understand it is easy to export our values to another nation while living in comparative luxury, but I refuse to hold their choices against them when my values are simply unafordable for them.
Also I never said loosing a job was painless and alway lands one in a better place than before. On average, though, we do land in a better place after the pain of looseing a job. As I said before if this wasn't the case our unemployment rate would be much higher. We are a fortunate country to have such a flexable economy that we can loose a job in one area of the economy and simply move to a growing area of the economy. Many countries in Europe don't have this flexability and people have to go without a job. Thus their higher european unenployment rates.
1) What used to happen does not validate it happening now. We used to draw and quarter political dissidents in the Western world; we don't support it as valid for any government to use now.
Plus, you just contradicted yourself about the Chinese having choice.
2) Children in farm families are NOT comparable to factory children who are often tied to the machinery behind barred doors in firetraps, and beaten when they become too exhausted to work. These are the very conditions that led to The American Humane Society spearheading efforts to outlaw child labor in this country. And no study has ever proved that child slavery was necessary to economic development. Quite the opposite, such a fragile workforce, with undeveloped physiques and intellects, underfed and worked to exhaustion is an economic drain. Consider the costs of replacement training, guards, detention equipment to name a few.
3) The United Nations, of which developing economies are in the majority, denounces child slave labor. We are not importing luxury economy values to other nations; morality and compassion actually exist in the "Third World".
4) On average, displaced American workers are forced to take lower paying, more menial jobs when their old positions are out sourced. And using the unemplyment rate as proof of the opposite is comparing apples and oranges. Having any job does not equate to being better off than at a previous job. Eventually, some find equable employment, after losing retirement, savings and homes.
Finally, we are not ever going to have no imports from other nations; trade makes for healthy economies in many ways. However, to simply support by our purchases the rampant relocating of our industrial base to other shores for the gross enrichment of the already grossly rich and sell out our nation and our children, and as Ira pointed out, cancel our ability to kick ass when we need to, is selfish, foolish and suicidal. Now, you can go ahead and buy all the stuff from China while saying your vote or voice or buying power can't change a thing, but history refutes you. Every great change and leap forward came from the joining of many voices in dissent - our very nation grew from the dissent of the masses. Those practices in China just belabored will only change when the voice of the masses demands justice too loudly to be ignored. So, bullsh*t! We buy that cheap stuff because we are spoiled and selfish and greedy. We want all the things we see the rich and famous have; instead of insisting they curb their bloated appetites, we try to suck up just as much, believing we are entitled more than any other people in history or any place else in the world. Well suck it up now, cause God won't always be on our side. At least be honest about your greed, there is no justifying it with "once upon a time, we did those terrible things so its okay to live off their pain now." - You personally never suffered their pain, if you did you'd be screaming for justice like a banshee.
Danny
by halfdome, Danny » Wed Dec 13, 2006 9:31 pm 
Grilled Cheese Ira?
