Frameless construction

[Cary Winch]

Being one that does a light frame, basically non structural, I have to agree of course that is a good line of thought going here. We always say our frame is really just a way to drag the axle down the road.

How many of you have looked under a Teardrop2000? I don't think they are even made anymore. They are a all fiberglass unit. The floor was a piece of plywood glassed into the body. The torsion axle under it bolted right to the floor and the 2" tongue also just bolted to the the floor. This seemed to work very well for them. Being a chopper fill fiberglass body they really were not very light either. So, I guess that makes that production teardrop a frameless design.

Cary

[dwgriff1]

It would seem that what might work well for a teardrop might be a disaster on a "utility" trailer.

We have sides, front and back, along with various cabinets and headders to hold it all tight and strong.

Probably the saving grace on a "frameless utilty" would be that it would rarely carry much weight.

We were talking about old VW's on another thread. They didn't have a frame, but just enough lower structure to support the engine and suspension. The sides and top hold it all together, quite well, by the way.

dave

[angib]

On the subject of 'frameless' construction, I've been working on the design of a sorta-frameless all-bolted chassis:



Since the A-frame meets the axle mounts, 'frameless' would be an exaggeration.

Hopefully it'll be done soon and I'll start a chassis page on my web site.

Andrew

[Geron]

Thanks a bunch guys.

Gone from a chassis to "frameless" for the start

2000 lb FR or dexter torsion axles directly to the floor with tongue as in angib's design above. Looking forward to your "frameless" page. Like the A style better than the single tongue. Can be bolted to the axle.

Jim in Sav.

Did you have your axles special made for you or are they "off the shelf?"
Like the Dexters in your style better than the Flex Ride.

Geron

[reiltear]

Thanks to everybody for keeping this subject alive.

A few nights ago, while surfing for "stressed skin" panels, I stumbled into the www.apawood.org site. After simple and free registration I had access to a bunch of PDFs with a lot of useful information, IMHO.

I thought that "Plywood Design Specification" and supplements 3 and 4 would be of use to teardroppers. The math didn't seem beyond 8th grade and even though these documents are geared towards building construction, I think the methods described could be applied to the TD design as well.

Somewhere in this forum I saw how someone built some foam core panels and was standing on them for strength tests. To me this is a "stone-age" approach to engineering. I'm dusting off my arithmometer and sending my abacus away for recalibration!...

I hope I'm not taking the fun out of designing and building the T&TTTs, I just want to build something that will be safe to use for years to come. May be some of us could put our heads together and come up with several "canned" platform/pan designs, where "if you put this stick together with this one using that type of glue" it would support this many pounds(sorta' like axles - you get this one and it will support that many lbs)?... Or, if these already exist(specific dimensions, loads and hopefully road-tested), would you let me know?

I will definitely throw some numbers together for the materials I find data for and I will try(no promises here) to put together a spreadsheet to ease the pains of the mathematically challenged among us.

What d'y'all think?(Sorry, Paula Dean I'm NOT)

Thanks in advance and have great holidays y'all!!(Just had to squeeze one more in, though I've never been there myself and speak with a Russian accent, one of my cousins went to law school in Dekatur and a very good friend of mine is originally from Marieta(not sure how to spel...), Georgia)

Ilya

[dwgriff1]

Did you have your axles special made for you or are they "off the shelf?" Geron

I ordered them special (from Recneck) -- took a couple of weeks. They have a spec sheet that includes a lot of details. I got the specs from another tear builder on this forum. Seems like it was Cary, but I am not sure.

The complex thing is the wheels/tires. That combination can change some things. I thought I had that one nailed, then changed both wheels and tires to make the better clearance.

dave

[asianflava]

It would seem that what might work well for a teardrop might be a disaster on a "utility" trailer.

Yup, the utility trailer manufacturer never knows how the trailer will be used. Or how badly abused it will get.

A teardrop will probably be close to the same weight every time, give or take a couple hundred pounds.

[Jiminsav]

Geron, unfortunately, dexter doesn't make off the shelf half shafts, however, the word custom doesn't fit either, i prefer to say they are made to order..took only a week to get them after they got the design back from me.
I think I still have the spec sheet laying around somewhere, but i think I ordered the brackets turned around from how they would typically weld them, and if I had to do it again, I'd give myself another inch between the arm and the bracket..I think I ordered um ¾ and thats tight.I could use another inch for playing room.

[Geron]

Another reason to go "Frameless"

5x8 red trailer = 499.00
Shipping to res. 155.00
Change hubs 75.00

Total for chassis = 729.00

Set of FlexRide half axles with hubs and shipping = 264.25
Misc. angle/channel, bolts, coupler, wiring another ?? 75.00

Total for frameless ca. 340.00.

The whole thing falls apart the second trip out == Priceless

Geron

[Steve Frederick]

http://www.etrailerpart.com/halftorsionaxles.htm - if you want the Flexiride equivalent, but they don't have the big brackets as used on a full axle.

Andrew

When they say "#??? rated" is that per pair, or each?
Even if building a "regular weight" frame, one could save weight by using these.

[Geron]

http://www.etrailerpart.com/halftorsionaxles.htm - if you want the Flexiride equivalent, but they don't have the big brackets as used on a full axle.

Andrew

When they say "#??? rated" is that per pair, or each?
Even if building a "regular weight" frame, one could save weight by using these.

Speaking from ignorance (but I'm still somewhat rational contrary to what my wife says) Since they are sold in pairs I'm reasonably confident the weight is for the total trailer weight with both half axles attached -- clear as mud??? The set is rated at 2000# - Would be the same as the rating of a single axle which includes support systems on both sides.

As indicated previously by a couple of knowledgables the "Sweet Spot" for these axles is at 1/2 the rated weight -- 1000# - Perfect for the TD

I'm going with the Flex Ride 2000 # -- Just because they are "there" and the transaction will be simple.

G

[reiltear]

The whole thing falls apart the second trip out == Priceless

Geron[/quote]

Hi Geron! You must have read my Wednesday post very carefully...

This is exactly why I started this thread. Thanks for all the "axul" education you guys gave me too.

Ilya

[Geron]

Thanks in advance and have great holidays y'all!!(Just had to squeeze one more in, though I've never been there myself and speak with a Russian accent, one of my cousins went to law school in Dekatur and a very good friend of mine is originally from Marieta(not sure how to spel...), Georgia)

Ilya

Lived next door to Decatur GA (actually Chamblee) for 5 years. Marietta is just up the road a "ways" from here, you know "right over yonder". My favorite spot. Our little place up in Blue Ridge, GA -- bet you never heard of it. It's just up from Cherry Log and right close to Hell's Holler and The Devil's Den -- local names.

You'uns take care, now,
g

[Geron]

Another reason to go "Frameless"

5x8 red trailer = 499.00
Shipping to res. 155.00
Change hubs 75.00

Total for chassis = 729.00

Set of FlexRide half axles with hubs and shipping = 264.25
Misc. angle/channel, bolts, coupler, wiring another ?? 75.00

Total for frameless ca. 340.00.

The whole thing falls apart the second trip out == Priceless

Geron

Or you could buy a HF trailer: $250.00, no shipping, only sales tax.
and save an additional $30,000.00 you'll pay in a lawsuit if your frameless contraption falls apart and hits another car.

That's the world we live in.
--rick

Well, I gave up on that option. I already have 2 -- 4x8's and I wanna go 5x8 which means wheel wells on the inside or elevate the floor higher than I want to or change the axle if I use the 4x8's. If I bought the HF would have to buy an axle. Nope.

I'm still thinking frameless. From some of the posts seems they have been tried in the past and are still on the road. tried and true it seems.

[dwgriff1]

I don't understand why frameless design would be less strong. There isn't a framed car on the road, they are all frameless by the way.

It's how it's done: framed or frameless, that matters.

Wood is not inherently an inferior material to steel. They are different. Consider the differences and design and build to those differences.

dave