Hostile & Abusive

[CPASPARKS]

I want to chime in on this.

I am a graduate of Midwestern State University in Wichita Falls, Texas.

NCAA leaned on the university to change their name from "Indians" to something else. The university changed the name to "Mustangs"...in 2006.

More PC stuff. University had to spend thousands and thousands of dollars to remove and replace mascots around campus. Even had to put down a new basketball court in the coliseum.

Could have used those funds to contribute to a Native American cause.

[Ira]

You know, unless we've walked in their shoes, you can't just say it's a PC thing:

Imagine I saw an ad for a bank called The New York Jews--taking a stereotype and using that because people think Jews are great with money, so they'll use that bank.

(If they met me, that stereotype would be immediately eliminated, but that's a different story.)

So you're an Indian, no matter what OTHER word you want to use for native Americans, and sports teams have names like the Indians, the Braves, the Redskins, whatever. What do these names have to do with these sports?

They were chosen to imply verocity, ruthlessness, cold-bloodiness, etc. Yeah, the argument could be made that they were selected to imply bravery, steadfastness, honor.

But come on--who are we kidding here? When these names were chosen, they WEREN'T chosen as an homage to Indians. It is how they've been described throughout the history here, usually negatively, but more importantly:

These names belong to THEM. Not OTHERS. It's like me starting a Rugby team of all white guys and calling them the Florida Niggers.

Can you tell me one other ethnic group that's used as a team name?

Notre Dame doesn't count, because that's just a nickname, and once upon a time, the majority of guys actually WERE Irish.

[WarPony]

I'm an Indian. Being called an Indian doesn't bother me at all. The whole "native American" phrase is a bunch of BS, as far as I'm concerned. If you were born in America, you are a native American. I'll sometimes refer to myself as an American Indian.

The team logos don't bother me. I know there are always high schools and colleges having to change them so as not to offend and it always pisses people off.

I think all the hooplah at games is a bit much, like the Florida Siminole dude riding around on a horse and throwing spears in the ground but that's me.

I'm a Chiefs fan and there was a group of Indians that would protest at the game about using the word "Chiefs" because it was offensive. Made alot of people mad they were there making a fuss about it, including me. There are more important issues to solve in American Indian culture than worrying about the name of a football team. Now, Redskins...... that one could go but it won't because of the tradition of the name associated with the football team. It would cost zillions of dollars and generally make Indians look bad whether ANY had a hand in it or not.

Bigwoods and GHOSTSXX, I'm with you. Fed up with all the PC crap, or as I call it, the puss-ification of America.

Jeff

[Miriam C.]

Well Jeff I agree with the Redskins or similar. And I really agree with the &&&&&ification of all Americans but American in particular.

Why is it the strong symbols of any peoples culture are touted as bad. Cheifs is good. I really like the ND symbol. It says strength to me.

The First Nations movement is alive and well in the US although not as well documented as the Canadian. The Canadian is so well known as it is sanctioned by the governent and lots of money pours into it.

[Bigwoods]

A flickertail is a type of ground squirrel. I don't think they are fearsome like bagers or Giants.

The University has had a wonderful relationship with the Tribes of North Dakota. They have provided medical services where none was available and have many programs to help the reservations educate the people.

The University have had programs to educate the students and fans of the Fighting Sioux to honor the Indian Nation.

This has been an ongoing problem that seems to never end. Now it will go to the courts and a decision made. but it probably will not be the end.

One twist to this is our Hockey Arena. It was donated by Ralph Engelsatad at a cost of $110 M. Hiis wife donated an addition for B-Ball and it was $55. M.

Ralph loved the Fighting Sioux and in front of the arena is a beautiful bronze of a Chief on a horse. It has marble floors and is state of the art. It was his dyeing wish the name not be changed. Of couse many contend he was buying the name to get his way with the University, but I feel he was just a benefactor.

BTW he also built a $15 M. hockey arena for his old high school.

[Ira]

These names have nothing to do with the sports nor the ethnicities of the players on the teams.

Again--it's not being PC.

A bunch of white folks simply don't have the right to use these names, mostly slurs, for idiotic and totally innane purposes like naming sports teams.

So I correct myself from what I said way above:

I DO have an opinion on this, and it sides with the native Americans who are offended by it.

But what I love most about this thread is that no one here can draw any analogies to IMMIGRANT groups who may not like certain verbage being used nowadays.

No one can tell INDIANS that if they don't like it, they should go back home!!!

[PapaJ]

The Seminole Tribe in Florida is adamant that the Florida State University Seminoles do NOT change their logos.

The NCAA backed off of that one.

(Personally as White Irish guy, I always liked the Celtics logo. I certainly never took offense at it or Notre Dame's Fighting Irish)

Now if it was the Drunken' Fighting Irish, I might have a bone to pick.

ANyway, I've never heard of a University Mascot/Logo that was not revered by the students and alumni of the school.

Some people just seem to have way too much time on their hands!

My $.02

[Laredo]

Anyway, I've never heard of a University Mascot/Logo that was not revered by the students and alumni of the school.

Well, now you've heard of one. I want them to stop risking the lives of beautiful, courageous, well-trained and intelligent horses riding them around the fake grass of the AT&T-Jones Stadium field in Lubbock for the sake of "Matador Spirit".

Especially if they're NOT going to stop the entire drunken bunch of "student" @$$hole "fans" from flinging tortillas onto the field and the sidelines. Stupid, stupid, stupid, stupid.

Of course, they set a record for their comeback in the "Insight Bowl" the other night, so there's no hope of the whole mess going quietly away into the darkness now ... curse it all.[/quote]

[Miriam C.]

A bunch of white folks simply don't have the right to use these names, mostly slurs, for idiotic and totally innane purposes like naming sports teams.

Why ever not??? They are white names. It is not about rights. It is about whether or not someone is being hurt. Not about a single person being offended, but a group being harmed. Not all are slurs and some of Tribes like it.

[GHOSTSSX]

So you are saying a team called the Fighting Coral Springers would be bad??

CHUCK

[s4son]

Like others I too am tired of theis PC crap. If the NCAA wants ALL the schools with Indian/Native American/First Nation mascots to change that's one thing. Otherwise it's BS.

Here's a question for everyone, why is it alright to continually make fun of over weight people? This country is turning into a bunch of whiners.

Maybe we should do away with all mascots and just give all the schools a number?

LETS GO, FIGHTING THREES!!


Scott F.

[Woodbutcher]

If the American Indians want to keep their rich traditions and reputations clean they should get out of gambling. It seems they have embraced the white mans way of life and traditions where it suits them. I hear a TV commercial that runs in Iowa. It talks about the rich traditions of the tribe and how the elders teach the children about games of chance. How proud their ancesters would be. What a sales job! It seems their rich traditions were to help seperate people from money they most likely can't afford to lose. I in no way am trying to imply that all American Indians are supporters of gambling. But I sure would like to know how those that are offended by sports teams using their likeness, feel about their own people exploiting others with gambling.

[Miriam C.]

We Three's don't like being exploited by big monied Fours.


The NCAA has become so political real Universities need to pull out.

Scott---because manufacturers of everything want to make more money. It is cheaper to make for skinny people. That is the truth of it. Why make fun of anyone.

Do you know kids around the world are getting taller and growing bigger feet. There is a serious concern about this. I'm a shorty and I think it is great. My grandaughters will be 5' 7" or better. How do I know? Cause my 11 year old is there now.

[Bigwoods]

WOW Very interesting responses.

[asianflava]

U of Illinois and Florida will be allowed to keep there Native American mascots and logos even when they have guys dressed up like Indians running out on the field.

Them is fighting words.....University of Florida are the GATORS! (who if history repeats itself will get killed in the Tostitos bowl) All my siblings went there. The school I went to didn't have a football team, so by default I'm a Gators Fan.

That other school is Florida State, the Seminoles, my wife went there. They have the premission of the Seminole tribe to use the name and likeness. The school also donates money to the tribe and offers educational scholarships to the tribe. Not that the tribe needs the money, they just bought everything associated with Hard Rock Cafe. Hotels, Casinos, Reststaurants, everything.

It seems that the people who make the biggest deal about this type of thing are people who aren't even involved. The same goes with being "Asian". All the sudden being called "oriental" was wrong. I personally don't give a crap.

I'm about an non-PC as a person can get, I hate all that BS. I do still make the differentiation by calling someone, "American Indian" or "Native American" so that I can call the other guys "Asian Indian" or "Hindu Indian" (even though some aren't) it saves time having to explain.