One for Ira - walmart workers sitting by the phone?

[madjack]

From the copyright, looks like the charts come from here:
http://www.nationalpriorities.org/

Interesting site. No left-wing agenda here. NOT!!

If you give a drunk sailor 10 bucks it will soon be out of his pocket an into another's with little accounting of how he spent it.....

HEY!! I resemble that remark!

Joseph

Joseph, you are right...both pie charts came from left leaning organizations BUT after Googling budget pie charts and looking at many...all of which were essentially the same...those were the best looking ones...the rest of those websites put much left spin to them but their chats were accurate...find me some that differ significantly if you wish, instead of implying that they are wrong because they were on a left leaning website...

On WMD...the only WMD's found were left overs from the Iran/Iraq war and were as dangerous to the users as the intended victims...we have a case of the "emperors new cloths"...were Saddams people were telling him..."yeah we are producing WMD's"(and weren't) and Saddam bluffing the world (primarily the Iranians) that he had and would use them...

So this leads to a couple of thoughts...we contained the USSR for 40 years...do you mean to say we couldn't contain a tin pot dictator like Saddam...we have spent 350 billion on this fiasco...wouldn't it have been better and cheaper to simply have bought off Saddam and still have the buffer against Iran.

This war was probably inevitable but Howdy Doody and buddies botched it by having unreasonable expectations that we would be welcomed with open arms and the people would simply embrace western ideals...no Arab govt or group has EVER embraced Western ideals on freedom and democracy...state capitalism yes but no others...if the plan from the beginning was to disband the entire Iraqi army and do a major de-bathification of the govt, we should have gone in with at least 500,000 troops...heck even after WWII we didn't get rid of all the Nazi administators, we just made take off their swastikas and swear allegiance to the new regime...
madjack

[Joseph]

Did you read this part?
"Eight Arab nations -- Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Oman -- warned that Iraq alone would bear responsibility for the consequences of defying the U.N.
"When Saddam still failed to comply, we prepared to act militarily. It was only then at the last possible moment that Iraq backed down. It pledged to the U.N. that it had made, and I quote, a clear and unconditional decision to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors."

Yes. Did you read the rest? Saddam violated that pledge. And so,

"That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team -- including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security adviser -- I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq. They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors."

So once again - how did Bush convince Clinton to believe the "lie."

Joseph

[Joseph]

...find me some that differ significantly if you wish, instead of implying that they are wrong because they were on a left leaning website...

I posted them here before and if I can find them again, I will.

On WMD...the only WMD's found were left overs from the Iran/Iraq war and were as dangerous to the users as the intended victims...we have a case of the "emperors new cloths"...were Saddams people were telling him..."yeah we are producing WMD's"(and weren't) and Saddam bluffing the world (primarily the Iranians) that he had and would use them...

Doubtless you are right, but he managed to convince every intelligence agency in the world that he had them. Yes, hindsight being 20/20 we now have a report that shows the failings of that intelligence. Nonetheless, everyone from the President to the Congress to the every nation in the UN believed it. So for Ira and Laredo and the rest of the libs to call it a “lie” is disingenuous at best. They believe it because they want to, not because there are any facts to support it.

So this leads to a couple of thoughts...we contained the USSR for 40 years...do you mean to say we couldn't contain a tin pot dictator like Saddam...

Apples and oranges. We contained the USSR (or they contained us, your choice) by mutually assured destruction. Not something we could use in the middle east and you know why – oil. This may not be a war for oil, but oil is certainly a factor in it.

we have spent 350 billion on this fiasco...

Whatever happened to the America I used to live in? I was no big fan of JFK but he had it right when he said, “Let every nation know, whether it wishes us well or ill, that we shall pay any price, bear any burden, meet any hardship, support any friend, oppose any foe to assure the survival and the success of liberty.”

wouldn't it have been better and cheaper to simply have bought off Saddam and still have the buffer against Iran.

Ask the Iraqi people.

This war was probably inevitable but Howdy Doody and buddies botched it by having unreasonable expectations that we would be welcomed with open arms and the people would simply embrace western ideals...no Arab govt or group has EVER embraced Western ideals on freedom and democracy...state capitalism yes but no others...

What about Lebanon? And as I have said before, no nation on EARTH ever embraced freedom and democracy until we did it. It’s still a pretty new-fangled idea and even we haven’t worked all the bugs out of it yet. And yet to say that because Islam seems to breed a nasty batch of oppressors that the majority of its people want to be oppressed is nonsense. And they’re not embracing western ideals – the democracy that they are trying to build is their own creation. It’s not the Iraqis that are fighting us in Iraq, it’s Iranians, Syrians and our good buddies the Saudis.

if the plan from the beginning was to disband the entire Iraqi army and do a major de-bathification of the govt, we should have gone in with at least 500,000 troops...heck even after WWII we didn't get rid of all the Nazi administators, we just made take off their swastikas and swear allegiance to the new regime...

We didn’t need 500,000 – Saddam’s regime is no more and the rat bastard has been hanged and buried. We’re not fighting a war, we’re fighting sectarian violence by individuals.

Joseph

[surveytech]

I thought this thread was about Walmart.

[madjack]

Hey Joseph, have you ever thought of applying for Tony Snow's job...you would make a great spinmiester for Howdy Doody and his funtime crew....
madjack

[Ira]

And speaking of Tony Snow:

Isn't it funny trying to watch him spin this stuff now?

The guy is not only digusted with the job after such a short time, there's no way HE believes the crap he's putting out there.

[Ira]

And speaking of Tony Snow:

Isn't it funny trying to watch him spin this stuff now?

The guy is not only digusted with the job after such a short time, there's no way HE believes the crap he's putting out there.

I think he totally believes it. He was one of the more arrogant and abuse fox news people. You don't get to that position unless you are totally taken with yourself. I turn on the press conferences on CSPAN just to see tony have to deal with all the face pies that are being hurled at him. He's the perfect spokesman for the bush administration.

--rick

You might be totally right.

But the facts are catching up with their false reality--and he's the one who has to answer to all of this daily.

Can HE still actually believe this stuff?

[Miriam C.]

Did you read this part?
"Eight Arab nations -- Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Bahrain, Qatar, United Arab Emirates and Oman -- warned that Iraq alone would bear responsibility for the consequences of defying the U.N.
"When Saddam still failed to comply, we prepared to act militarily. It was only then at the last possible moment that Iraq backed down. It pledged to the U.N. that it had made, and I quote, a clear and unconditional decision to resume cooperation with the weapons inspectors."

Yes. Did you read the rest? Saddam violated that pledge. And so,

"That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team -- including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security adviser -- I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq. They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors."
So once again - how did Bush convince Clinton to believe the "lie."

Joseph

I hate to do it, but maybe Billy Boy was more sucessful than they thought.

[PaulC]

I've just figured it out, Joseph has been placed on this forum by the CIA to defend your Governments actions and to convince all and sundry that they are right in everything they do. His explanations are laughable.
Cheers
Paul

[angib]

And as I have said before, no nation on EARTH ever embraced freedom and democracy until we did it.

Pure, unadulterated bullshit.

The USA made some major steps forward in developing the concepts of freedom and democracy but was certainly not the first to do so.

The words 'democracy' and 'republic' are ancient Greek, because they came up with those ideas, and applied them, around 500BC.

Iceland has the oldest democratic parliament, starting over 1100 years ago.

The ancient Greeks and Romans had written constitutions, as have many Germanic states for the last 1500 years.

Even my own country, which doesn't even have a written constitution, set down the rights of the individual citizen over 800 years ago.

The USA is the oldest surviving republic of the modern era and has made major contributions to freedom and democracy, but its good name is debased by stupid statements of this sort.

Andrew

[PaulC]

Quote "Whatever happened to the America I used to live in?"

Joseph, did you move out or did they?

Quote "And as I have said before, no nation on EARTH ever embraced freedom and democracy until we did it. It’s still a pretty new-fangled idea and even we haven’t worked all the bugs out of it yet."

Man, check your history books or, better still, take those damned dark sunglasses off.

Quote "That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team -- including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security adviser -- I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq. They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors."

So this is what was needed to curtail the spread of 500 old mustard gas bombs and the sale of WMD's that do not exist?

Cheers
Paul

[Joseph]

I stand humbly corrected on my ignorance of the history of democracy and apologize to those who took offense. I can only blame the American public school system, the disadvantages of which I am still trying to overcome.

However, no one yet has answered my question - how did Bush convince Clinton to believe the "lie" of Iraq's WMDs?

Joseph

[Miriam C.]

I stand humbly corrected on my ignorance of the history of democracy and apologize to those who took offense. I can only blame the American public school system, the disadvantages of which I am still trying to overcome.

However, no one yet has answered my question - how did Bush convince Clinton to believe the "lie" of Iraq's WMDs?

Joseph

I'm sorry Joseph but how the "h" is the American public school system responsible for your not knowing anything? I got the impression you went to college. Don't want to get personal but this is a bit out there. You been smokin?

You refuse to recognise the disadvantages of others, perhaps you should give this some thought.

[Joseph]

I'm sorry Joseph but how the "h" is the American public school system responsible for your not knowing anything?

Merely a feeble attempt at humor. In fact, when I was a kid the California public school system was one of the best in the nation - they still taught things like math and reading and grammar instead of how to put on a condom and how to feel good about yourself without even trying.

I got the impression you went to college. Don't want to get personal but this is a bit out there. You been smokin?

Frankly, I think I have demonstrated that I am in fact somewhat knowledgeable on at least a few subjects. But I will own that I'm poorly educated about world history - virtually nothing was taught of it in grades K-12 and in college I was a psychology major. What little I do know I owe to a now-retired co-worker (very liberal) who could cite the entire history of western civilization in great detail. I'm sure if I had made that most regrettable statement with him in the room, he would have provided the additional education that Paul and Andrew have so graciously provided.

You refuse to recognise the disadvantages of others, perhaps you should give this some thought.

Excuse me? When have I ever refused to recognize the disadvantages of others? Provide me an example, please.

Joseph

[Miriam C.]

I'm sorry Joseph but how the "h" is the American public school system responsible for your not knowing anything?

Merely a feeble attempt at humor. In fact, when I was a kid the California public school system was one of the best in the nation - they still taught things like math and reading and grammar instead of how to put on a condom and how to feel good about yourself without even trying.

I got the impression you went to college. Don't want to get personal but this is a bit out there. You been smokin?

Frankly, I think I have demonstrated that I am in fact somewhat knowledgeable on at least a few subjects. But I will own that I'm poorly educated about world history - virtually nothing was taught of it in grades K-12 and in college I was a psychology major. What little I do know I owe to a now-retired co-worker (very liberal) who could cite the entire history of western civilization in great detail. I'm sure if I had made that most regrettable statement with him in the room, he would have provided the additional education that Paul and Andrew have so graciously provided.

You refuse to recognise the disadvantages of others, perhaps you should give this some thought.

Excuse me? When have I ever refused to recognize the disadvantages of others? Provide me an example, please.

Joseph

I didn't post this to argue with you. When you make statement like "Walmart not being a career choice" you are making a value judgement on people who didn't have your advantages. I just would like you and several others to give that some thought.

Your degree should have included Western Civ. and Eastern Civ. I realize a lot of student don't do well in these subjects. With a degree in Pschology, perhaps you were taught that peoples choices cause thier lowly condition.

As an adult you should be able to recognise that most service oriented capitalist countries are maintained by cheap labor and it is the very rich who keep that cheap labor in "it's place." I am of course assuming you took the usually required courses in Economics as well.

Sorry to miss the joke. I will do better.