One for Ira - walmart workers sitting by the phone?

[Joseph]

I didn't post this to argue with you.

Seems to me we're discussing matters with an eye to reaching mutual understanding. That's my goal, anyway.

When you make statement like "Walmart not being a career choice" you are making a value judgement on people who didn't have your advantages. I just would like you and several others to give that some thought.

I believe I said very few people make it a career choice. This is not my opinion, it's a fact as proven by their high turnover rate - it's a rare employee that lasts longer than two years. But I certainly did NOT mean to belittle those who do make it a career choice. I would never belittle anyone willing to do honest work.

Your degree should have included Western Civ. and Eastern Civ.

Nope. But since you bring it up, here's what it did include:
Intro to Biology
Physical Anthropology
Physical Geology
Psychology
Sociology
Cultural Anthropology
Personal & Social Adjustment
US History
Intro to Political Science
Principles of Psychology
Educational Psychology
Social Psychology
Broadcast Tech (briefly considered being a DJ)
History of Art
Intro to Literature
Survey of English
German 1
German 2
Speech
Composition
Intermediate Algebra/Trigonometry
Health Ed
Intro to Statistics

This does not include my final year at SF State, but I guarantee there were no courses on Civilization, either Easten or Western. I did minor in Geology and took some Music Appreciation, but it was primarily psych-related courses.

I realize a lot of student don't do well in these subjects. With a degree in Pschology, perhaps you were taught that peoples choices cause thier lowly condition.

At San Francisco State?!! Oh no - even back then (mid-'70s) they were beginning to teach the blaming of all the ills of the world on society in general and American society in particular. But you know, when you choose to drop out of high school... when you're a kid who chooses to have sex and gets pregnant... when you make any number of the foolish choices that people make, just whose fault is it? And whose fault is it if you just sit on your butt feeling sorry for yourself and don't make the choices necessary to better your life? Life isn't over 'till it's over, and there is no end of help out there for those who want it. Which is why I said earler that yes, in fact, we DO need social workers.

As an adult you should be able to recognise that most service oriented capitalist countries are maintained by cheap labor and it is the very rich who keep that cheap labor in "it's place." I am of course assuming you took the usually rerequired courses in Economics as well.

There you go assuming again. No Economics whatsoever on my transcripts. Though if I had the time and money I'd love to take a few courses in it from Dr. Walter Williams at GMU. However, you miss one point about the service oriented labor situation. This is no longer the 19th century, nor is it China. No one is forced into a career choice and no one is forced to remain there. But change requires risk, and sadly, too many people are willing to stay in a bad situation than take the risk of getting out of it and going for something better. That applies not only to jobs but relationships and virtually every other aspect of human relations.

A young lady of my accquaintance is a very good example. She is a gifted and talented singer and has had a number of successful stage appearances. But she doesn't trust her gift and is terrified of rejection - she won't take the risk of getting an agent and going for the career that would make her happy and successful. Instead she drifts from dead-end job to dead-end job. For all practical purposes she is homeless save that various family members take her in on a sort of rotational basis. I can only pity her - I can't help her. She must do that for herself.

Sorry to miss the joke. I will do better.

No problem. I should have included at least a smiley.

Joseph

[Miriam C.]

Are you kidding me? No Western Civ. No Eastern Civ. No keeping the Ying Yangs straight from one generation to the next. I clearly went to the wrong school. Eastern civ. dropped my GPA.

No Economics at all? You are right you did get screwed by the school system. Reading suggestion= anything on Keynesian Economics. You might be suprised. I hated economics too!

I'm not going to lecture you on the choices young people make nor will I try to explain that there are relatively few real career choices that allow a living wage for even college educated people.

You are a smart man. If you check out the number of jobs, type of jobs, and how many I am willing to bet you will change you mind about some of those statements.

Girls and pregnancy happen. My opinion is some make an uninformed choice, or they did before Sex Ed. I guess now you can give them the responsibility, and how about forgiveness for the follies of youth, with a gentle hand up and out of the mire.

[rbeemer]

The only thing you have to remember about economics is TNSTAFL(There is No Such Thing As a Free Lunch)

[Miriam C.]

The only thing you have to remember about economics is TNSTAFL(There is No Such Thing As a Free Lunch)

We are the middle class and wage earners and lunch is on us.

[Joseph]

We are the middle class and wage earners and lunch is on us.

We are the middle class and lunch IS us!

No Economics at all? You are right you did get screwed by the school system. Reading suggestion= anything on Kensington Economics.

Oddly enough, I've heard of Kensington Economics and IIRC they weren't good things. However, a Google of the subject comes up empty. Any suggestions?

I'm not going to lecture you on the choices young people make nor will I try to explain that there are relatively few real career choices that allow a living wage for even college educated people.

I beg to differ. There are many, many career choices that provide one with a very substantial living. The problem is, people are coming out of college expecting to find that job that gives them that substantial level immediately - they want the house and the two cars and all that, right from the start. It doesn't happen - you have to start out at the bottom like everyone else.

I'm one of those dumb (at least, according to some) people who joined the military for the economic opportunity: in short, I needed a decent job. I was working for a construction company that specialized in sewer systems – talk about a $#!tty job! I was literally digging ditches in Denver, CO for minimum wage. I had a college education but a BA degree in Psychology is good for three things: (A) you can go on to Post Graduate School; (B) you can get a commission in the military; or, (C) because of the stiff parchment it's printed on, you can make a dandy paper airplane. I no longer wanted to pursue they sort of career that led me into a psych major in the first place, so eventually I opted for Plan B (with an option on Plan C) and applied for Navy Officer Candidate School. Unfortunately, the interviewing officer was not impressed with the young, chubby, pony-tailed man before him so I didn’t make it. OK, fine – I enlisted. After not quite four years as a Quartermaster (made it to QM2), I applied again and was accepted. This led me to a career in logistics (something I never would have expected in my wildest dreams!) where I’m now being paid very well by the Navy to manage test equipment and shore support facilities for Trident submarines for both the US and the UK. Who’d a thunk it!

You are a smart man. If you check out the number of jobs, type of jobs, and how many I am willing to bet you will change you mind about some of those statements.

I’ve don’t have to check, I’ve lived it. Further, I know others who have gone from a lot less than I ever had to one heluva lot more than I can imagine. That’s where I formed my opinions in the first place!

Girls and pregnancy happen.

Pregnancy never happens when a girl uses the old Ann Landers miracle cure – aspirin.

Take one and hold it between your knees. Works every time.

Well, no, not every time. Part of the story of the young lady I mentioned earlier was that some years ago she was gang-raped by four guys which resulted in a pregnancy. She had an abortion but that only makes one part of the problem go away. The emotional scars she carries are part of the burden that makes her what she is. But again, for her to find a way out of her situation, she is going to have to seek it.

My opinion is some make an uninformed choice, or they did before Sex Ed.

I don't think teenage girls need sex ed to tell them where babies come from.

I guess now you can give them the responsibility, and how about forgiveness for the follies of youth,

There is nothing for me to forgive. Forgiveness can only be given by the one offended: their family; God, for those of us who have one.

with a gentle hand up and out of the mire.

That sounds lovely, and I am more willing to offer that hand up. But they have to be willing to take that hand and stand on their own two feet.

Joseph

[Ira]

Man--he's starting again.

FOR CHRIST'S SAKE, JOSEPH! NOT EVERYTHING'S AN ARGUMENT!

AND NOT EVERY POST REQUIRES 15 QUOTES AND FIVE THOUSAND WORDS OF YOUR REPLY!

You got two ears and only one mouth--so shouldn't that tell you SOMETHING!?

LET IT REST, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!

[Joseph]

Tell your friend to go find grant money, pick the highest paying career she can stand to study for (make sure there is demand too!), bite the bullet for 4 years, then she can cry all the way to the bank in her BMW.

She could do that, even at thirty-eight. (When I called her young I meant relatively.) But she's happiest when on stage - even singing in clubs and bars - and it pays well enough when she does it. But it takes the risk of rejection to get the gigs so unless someone gets them for her, it doesn't happen. I'd be her agent myself if I knew how to do that sort of thing and it could be done from a distance.

Joseph

[Joseph]

My Ira, how you've changed!

LET IT REST, FOR CHRIST'S SAKE!

I will when you answer my question, which I'm asking again for the third time - how did Bush manage to get Clinton to tell this lie in 1998?

Joseph

[PaulC]

Hey Ira,Have You been to the plastic surgeon over the Holiday break

The Pirate is going to bait you till eternity. He's stopped answering my posts since Andrew and I pulled him up on his outlandish claims about America.
If he has a psychology degree, as he claims, He's probably writing a thesis on internet forums and has organised for it to be published in one of those scientific publications. He may be using us as his study group
Cheers
Paul

[Elumia]

In the words of Mark Twain:

"In religion and politics people's beliefs and convictions are in almost every case gotten at second-hand, and without examination."

and...

"It is better to keep your mouth shut and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt."

Mark

[Miriam C.]

Quote:
My opinion is some make an uninformed choice, or they did before Sex Ed.

I don't think teenage girls need sex ed to tell them where babies come from.

It's ok girls, I am not screeching the house down, I am not even pulling my hair out. I am laughing. Joseph dear, exactly how old are you?

Your friend, as you should know is in all likelyhood having a very slow controlled anxiety induced melt down. She probably can't successfully stay in one place. She may even be unable to make choices that make sense to you. Crowds---gang rape! Get it! PTSD. Please don't anyone please please, don't tell me that is just another of society's excuses to fail syndromes. I'd like to keep the rest of my hair

Your Psychology classes have long since expired with age.

Oh yeah---Billy wasn't convinced by Jr it was the father. All countries have weapons of mass destruction.

[PaulC]

All countries have weapons of mass destruction.

Yupper, we've got our boomerangs stashed all over the place

Cheers
Paul

[Joseph]

He's stopped answering my posts since Andrew and I pulled him up on his outlandish claims about America.

For which I apologized. Unlike some, I can admit when I am wrong. And believe it or not, I'm grateful for your and Andrew's correction: it'll keep me from making that same stupid statement again.

But what have you written since that I should reply to? You mean this?

Quote "That is why, on the unanimous recommendation of my national security team -- including the vice president, the secretary of defense, the chairman of the joint chiefs of staff, the secretary of state and the national security adviser -- I have ordered a strong, sustained series of air strikes against Iraq. They are designed to degrade Saddam's capacity to develop and deliver weapons of mass destruction, and to degrade his ability to threaten his neighbors."

So this is what was needed to curtail the spread of 500 old mustard gas bombs and the sale of WMD's that do not exist?

Read it again. "Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are deemed to still exist."

And the words in the previous paragraph were Clinton's, not Bush's. My point being that if Bush lied, so did Clinton. In fact, neither one lied. Both believed faulty intelligence that we now, with our 20/20 hindsight, know was seriously flawed. But frankly, I don't expect liberals to have enough intellectual honesty to admit even that much.

Joseph

[Joseph]

Your friend, as you should know is in all likelyhood having a very slow controlled anxiety induced melt down. She probably can't successfully stay in one place. She may even be unable to make choices that make sense to you. Crowds---gang rape! Get it! PTSD.

OF COURSE I DO! God, what the hell do you think? There is never getting over something like that. Never. You are in a very real sense frozen in time at that point, even though it was twenty years ago. But it IS possible to build a life, even on such ruins. And we were talking about girls who make poor choices. This was hardly a choice that she made.

Please don't anyone please please, don't tell me that is just another of society's excuses to fail syndromes. I'd like to keep the rest of my hair

Keep the rest of your hair.

Your Psychology classes have long since expired with age.

They did that before I graduated. Why do you think I chose not to pursue a career in it? It's all theory and mumbo-jumbo and I have no desire to be a shaman.

Joseph

[Miriam C.]

Joseph,
I was commenting to your other post not the girls with poor choices. Physically it is not always possible to make what some consider a successful life after a trauma. Sometimes the chemicals in the brain don't do normal. Sometimes the people having a problem don't know it is there, so they are unable to get help. That is all I meant.

Glad to hear it. They are doing a bit better these days. More based on medical knowledge now.

Now if I only had a group hug emoticon.

PS--it is usually other peoples reaction that prevents people from moving on. They train employers to notice differences and not employ them.