How Long Do We Have?

[SteveH]

Ira,

May I suggest you can do what I do with some posts I'm not interested in, don't read them.

[caseydog]

Now, you boys stop fighting and get washed up for dinner.

[Ira]

Starting four political threads in two days? What kind of a site would this be if we ALL decided to do that?

Politics will come up within non-political threads as a matter of course, but starting them just for that purpose is asking for trouble. And that's exactly what you're doing here.

Go get laid. You'll feel better.

[SteveH]

Now, you boys stop fighting and get washed up for dinner.

I think Ira is wanting to fight, but with who? I'm not fighting with anyone.

[Dixie Flyer]

This reminds me or the first sexual inuendo ever use on TV when June says, "Ward, you were kinda rough on the Beaver last night weren't you?"

[Ira]

This reminds me or the first sexual inuendo ever use on TV when June says, "Ward, you were kinda rough on the Beaver last night weren't you?"

HAH!!!!!!!

[Miriam C.]

I thought this was about Alexander Tyler's view that Democratic Republics were destined to become dictatorships due to people voting in their own entitlements. And the parallels with our modern times. Not one party over the other but all people who live in a Democracy no matter the party.

Alexander Tyler clearly believed in the Monarchy.

[caseydog]

I thought this was about Alexander Tyler's view that Democratic Republics were destined to become dictatorships due to people voting in their own entitlements. And the parallels with our modern times. Not one party over the other but all people who live in a Democracy no matter the party.

Alexander Tyler clearly believed in the Monarchy.

I would love to live in a Monarchy -- can I be King? Please????

But seriously, you make a good point, Miriam.

I agree with some of Tyler's theory, that we do get appathetic as we gain wealth and comfort, but the rest of the initial post was just Democrat bashing.

To me, the real problem isn't political, it is "spiritual", for lack of a better term. The more we have, the more we want. That's just as true for the Republicans I know, as it is for the Democrats I know.

And, it's not just government entitlements where that reveals itself, it shows up in the hours we work just to make the payments on our ever-growing houses, full of stuff we think we "need". It shows up in our record levels of revolving debt. It shows in our transition from an agrarian economy, to an industrial economy, to a service economy, to a consumer economy.

G

[Arne]

Unfortunately, the wmv file is gone, but I received it a few weeks back. It was great... It started with which nation has the best, most stable currency, the largest most powerful navy, was the most highly respected.... etc.

The answer: England, 1900.....

So, folks, nothing lasts forever.. ask the Dutch, once one of the most influential and powerful countries in the world....

Think: China.....

[Miriam C.]

Number of States won by:
Gore: 19
Bush: 29

Square miles of land won by:
Gore: 580,000
Bush: 2,427,000

Population of counties won by:
Gore: 127 million
Bush: 143 million
Murder rate per 100,000 residents in counties won by:
Gore: 13.2
Bush: 2.1

Professor Olson adds: "In aggregate,
the map of the territory Bush won was mostly the land owned by the tax paying citizens of this great country. Gore's territory mostly encompassed those
citizens living in government-owned tenements and living off various forms
of government welfare..."

Ok CaseyDog. I am infamous for my dogged standing up for the little person. Mostly cause I am one of the tax paying minions.

I won't go through the list of numbers but they are numbers not bashing.

They can also be used to expressed the total discontent with the way people in those area's (both) live and their belief that one party or the other cares about their issues.

A belief is just that and even if change is occurring, people will pass those beliefs to their families in spite of the change. Yes it is a form of political dogma. It happens!

I tend to lean depending on the subject and vote based on the character of the person running. I voted the last ten years because it is my social duty. I voted many years before that for Pat Paulson and the Pig.

I will say that if I had a choice between Kerry, Hillary and Al I would choose:

Al Gore!

Hey Kerry took a part of Arizona. THE PETRIFIED FOREST. Not bashing anyone but Kerry cause I can. I---M have spoken the all powerful M---Queen of Teardrop Land.

[angib]

Tyler's hypothesis can be tested by just looking outside your borders - where you will find stable democracies where the citizens want, expect and demand that the state does lots of things, many more than are done in the USA. Steve has used a 200-year-old statement to make a political point, since any later commentator might have to observe that the thesis had already been proved wrong.

As nearly always in a political subject, it's good to go look at what Sweden and Holland do, before saying what can and cannot happen or be done.

I suspect that societies always move to the left, politically, as they level off economically. While their economy is growing fast, people believe that the best way of looking after themselves is to get some of the new wealth that's being created. But once their economy begins to level off and even stagnate or decline, this no longer looks like such a good way of getting what are now considered to be essential services, like hospitals or welfare provision. So they become more 'social', by the citizens agreeing to provide these services through the state, rather than individually.

I can understand that Steve may think this is 'going to the devil', but if you look around, it's clear that there's plenty of countries who have done this and are surviving OK.

Andrew

[caseydog]

I won't go through the list of numbers but they are numbers not bashing.

They are carefully selected numbers -- selected to bash Democrats. I have this neat chart that shows the average IQ of the States Kerry won VS the states Bush won. I could post that up to make a point that Smart people voted for Kerry, and stupid people voted for Bush. That's how carefully chosen facts and numbers becomes bashing.

I'm a middle class taxpayer. I Voted for Reagan twice. I didn't vote for Clinton, but at the end of his term, I was alot better off than at the end of Reagan's. Clinton completely surprized me when, working WITH a Republican congress out to get him, managed to do a lot of things that Bush and the Republicans promised, like fiscal responsibility -- they eliminated the annual budget deficit.

I absolutely LOVE split government (one party has white house and other party has congress), and history shows that split government works best. It's also great for the people, IMO, because we are split -- or better said, we are really diverse in our opinions and priorities.

CD

[caseydog]

Tyler's hypothesis can be tested by just looking outside your borders - where you will find stable democracies where the citizens want, expect and demand that the state does lots of things, many more than are done in the USA. Steve has used a 200-year-old statement to make a political point, since any later commentator might have to observe that the thesis had already been proved wrong.

As nearly always in a political subject, it's good to go look at what Sweden and Holland do, before saying what can and cannot happen or be done.

I suspect that societies always move to the left, politically, as they level off economically. While their economy is growing fast, people believe that the best way of looking after themselves is to get some of the new wealth that's being created. But once their economy begins to level off and even stagnate or decline, this no longer looks like such a good way of getting what are now considered to be essential services, like hospitals or welfare provision. So they become more 'social', by the citizens agreeing to provide these services through the state, rather than individually.

I can understand that Steve may think this is 'going to the devil', but if you look around, it's clear that there's plenty of countries who have done this and are surviving OK.

Andrew

Interesting observation. I've travelled a lot, and always find it interesting to go out of the country to see that there is another version of reality.

[PresTx82]

I will say that if I had a choice between Kerry, Hillary and Al I would choose:

Al Gore!

[Dooner]

I'm not smart enough to get into a big debate over this subject. I know how I feel about the gimme gimme people and the illegals, and it's not good. I am one of the people that pay my way through life paying for those jerks that don't.


I also know a famous quote when I think about these people. And I know it wasn't intended for this reason, but still...

"ASK NOT WHAT YOUR COUNTRY CAN DO FOR YOU, BUT WHAT YOU CAN DO FOR YOUR COUNTRY!"