Trying NOT To Panic, But My Wall Is Out Of Square

Anything to do with mechanical, construction etc

Postby Jiminsav » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:05 pm

I'm betting on warpage..and really, like they say, when you put the spars on and bolt everything down, it should be square.

my first tear, the wood i used for the walls took a horrible warp, and the only way to fix it was to put a brace in the very center of the wall when I attached the roof spars so that I could try and push out the warp..didn't work..wound up getting new plywood.
Last edited by Jiminsav on Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby BobR » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:08 pm

This may be an obvious question but is your framing square really square...heres how to check. I would be sure before you make yourself crazy.

http://www.newwoodworker.com/fxfrmsqr.html
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Postby PaulC » Sun Jul 22, 2007 5:11 pm

Are the cabinets going to be a permanent fit? If they are the wall will pull in when you screw it up, provided you screw that side first.
If they are not going to be a permanent fit then may I suggest a captive bolt in the wall and a wing nut and plate placed strategically to hold the cabinets in place and to help with pulling the wall in.
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Postby Miriam C. » Sun Jul 22, 2007 8:36 pm

Perhaps you need to get a level on that wall and start at the top. Move the level down to see if one corner is pulling away or in. I have one that moves at will.

Secondly when you put your counter in can you put some pocket screws in to pull it without throwing everything else off?

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Postby Jst83 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 4:30 am

Miriam C. wrote:Third~~~~TRIM :D


I second that it's amazing what trim will hide :lol:
Mine is living proof of that
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Postby SaGR » Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:26 am

One more question - is the trailer frame plumb and square on that side?

If it's off, or tilted to the left when looking from the rear, I can see how it would cause the wall panel to lean out when it's tightened.
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Postby sandman » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:10 am

Well, I don't know if the Teardrop Gods have smiled on me for a change or what but here's the story. Yesterday, I kept checking here for replies as to what I should check and I THANK EVERYONE for responding to this thread. You have all taught me some valuable insite into how to adjust and double check everything.

I took a few hours off, rode my dirtbike around the neighborhood to clear my head while I thought about all these replies. Believe it or not, I checked my Carpenter's Square based on the suggestion here and sure enough my square failed the test miserably....4 times. After testing on a piece of MDF, I found that the line I struck was off by 1/8" of an inch when I flipped the square over and compared. I did not want to think that I had a bad square but I did. The square was part of the problem though. ANyway, my wife is a quilter and she has about 20 specialy rulers and squares she uses in quilting. I grabbed a few of her right angle plastic squares, went back and check the wall from front to back to see where the deviation began. The front was perfect and just passed the door cutout, the wall began to bow out just slightly.

After I checked it with another square, I found it to be the same based on the pencil mark where I noted wall was beginning to bow. So, I unbolted all the carriage bolts that hold the Teardrop to the trailer and began to push on the teardrop to see if I could shift it around a bit. The Asphalt Emulsion makes it almost impossible once it dries. I broke the seal of the AE with a flat edge screwdriver and loosened the subfloor assembly from the main floor. I was able to push teardrop with some coercing from my big rubber mallet and pounded, moving the whole tear over just slightly. I figured this couldn't hurt since I left a little wiggle room inside the trailer's angle iron main side rails. After straining and pushing, the Teardrop seemed to creek just a bit and then it settled. I went back, redrilled the floor holes to allow for the shift in the Teardrop so I could get the 3/8" Carriage Bolts back through the floor and angle iron. I retightened everything and went back checking the wall again with 4 different squares and the result was an improvement of about 1/8". I was still off by an 1/8th.

When working with wood, moisture can sometimes be your friend. I took a spray bottle of cold water, and doused the bowed wall on the outside. I put the buldhead back in and screwed it to the floor this time. I went ahead and glued and screwed in the last roof spar before the hatch opening. I decided to use a full 2x4 to give the hatch hinges something to bite into. I applied the glue to each end of the hatch spar and then got my tie-downs and then ratched them as tight as I could to pull the walls in while the hatch spar glue set up overnight. I redoused the wall with water hoping the moisture would help the wood bend and give in the direction I wanted it to go.

I woke up bright and early this morning, went to the garage to check on the progress to see if Gremlins had attacked my Teardrop in the night. I took the 4 squares and began checking the wall from front to back again and found the wall had pulled into line somehow and I was barely a fraction of a 1/16" of an inch off. A VAST improvement over the 1/2" discrepency yesterday. I took the tie down off and checked everywhere and found it to be almost spot on. After getting the good news, I set the Tie Down back into place and cranked it back up to hold everything until I get back to work later today.

The goal for today is to install the 3 last lower spars under the hatch. After those 3 are done, all spars will be finished and ready for inside ceiling skinning. I did put my trailer back up on jackstands and levelled it last night so it's up off the ground and seemingly square.

So far, the Teardrop Gods have blessed me with an overnight miracle. Thanks to all you guys for your help!!! :applause:
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Postby SaGR » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:31 am

:applause: :applause: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :applause: :applause:
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Postby tonyj » Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:24 am

The square gods have smiled. Be happy, they don't do that often.

One of the lifelong pursuits of woodworkers is the elusive square cut. I always use my square to check, but on critical measurements, like MJ or someone else suggested, the most accurate way is to check the diagonal measurements. In your case, measure from the corner of the wall/floor joint to the edge of the top of the opposing wall. Then, measure the diagonal from the other side wall/floor joint to the top of the 1st wall. If the measurements are the same, you're done. If not, keep working until they do (or are within your tolerance range of 1/16).

If your square can't be "tuned" its time to get a new one--but check several on the rack. Don't just pull one and throw it in the shopping cart.

Don't feel you are alone with this problem--it nags us all!
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Postby BILLYL » Mon Jul 23, 2007 12:08 pm

I was going to suggest a really big hammer - BMFH -

:hammer:

a few well placed wacks and there you go. And this does point out that having a good square and using the same measuring tape through out your build will give you the necessary degree of tolerance.

:designing:

And as said before:

"You'll never see it from the basement"

Have fun

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Postby madjack » Mon Jul 23, 2007 2:36 pm

...good deal Sm...never panic...take a bike ride and let things settle there is always a solution...I am glad you found it...
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Postby sandman » Mon Jul 23, 2007 3:25 pm

Thanks Guys. I am pretty lucky it was fixed so easy. I have been taking time off dirtbiking for 2 months to finish this build and forgot just how much I enjoy getting the wind in my face.
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Postby Micro469 » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:06 pm

Great news Sandman.... After a rocky start, I think you hit smooth pavement. :thumbsup:
John
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Postby mikeschn » Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:18 pm

Good news for sure.

Hey we are all rooting for you... and we know you can pull it off!

Mike...
The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten, so build your teardrop with the best materials...
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Postby Classic Finn » Tue Jul 24, 2007 4:26 am

Sandman Im also Very Glad ... Your pulling thru... :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: Way to go. :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

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