Propane Tanks? Running the hose or... please help!

[doug hodder]

there ya go Arthur....see, I told you I can't remember...I don't have either mounted, just knew that we discussed this at one time or another.... you're probably right.....Doug

[Chuck Craven]

I would go with Doug! Copper for as much as possible outside. Use the rubber hose that is rated for Propane just to the galley appliances and to the tank. Put the regulator as close to the tank as possible. Remember you have to turn off the tank when traveling in most states. You can plum direct to the heater only if it is a outside vented type. Don’t use a catalytic heater inside the cabin. Class “A” motor homes can have the tank pressured when traveling only because of the special regulated installation that has been done.


Chuck

[Dale M.]

Just my thoughts and it will probably echo most of what is already said...

Propane is heavier than air (sp of 1.54) so is settles in low spots. So all vents involving propane should be as low as possible.

All lines and connections should be outside cabin area when ever possible. Best places is in open areas under chassis where it is accessible in case repairs are necessary. If you run tubing though walls or floor, and it leaks, it will "pool' and it will explode if it finds a ignition source. Consider this, Propane expands 270 times its volume in explosive situation

Soft copper tubing and flared fitting is acceptable. Also consider soft aluminum tubing. Lots of supports (clamps) so tubing does not vibrate when trailer is going down the road. Also one may consider running soft line inside section of garden hose to protect it from road trash. Short flex hose between hard line ( copper or aluminum) and regulator is good idea.

Also consider black iron pipe maybe 1/4 inch for single continuous run from tank on tongue to stove in galley area. And use short flex lines to connect from iron piping to appliance or regulator. Advantage of iron pipe line is it is more rugged and will defect road trash better....

Rubber hose may be uses for long runs and you can use barbed fittings a clamps, PROVIDING you can buy in bulk LPG APPROVED hose... Using non-LP Gas approved hose will allow the propane to attack hose material and it will deteriorate from the INSIDE and you will not be aware of pending problem until if actually fails... Rubber hose is also more susceptible to damage by road trash.

Do not try to use HIGH PRESSURE propane in your "hard piped" plumping system, only low pressure, "regulated" propane. High pressure propane is those devices and tanks the use "disposable cylinders" that have the "1 inch by 20 treads" disposable connectors... The pressure is up around 100 psi @ 70° f.... As temperature increases pressure increases. Only use approved manufactured hoses and best thing is to move tank to area where manufactured hoses will "reach" appliance. Stay away from hoses made in China and hoses that do not have "LP GAS APPROVED" marking stamped in rubber hose...

The odorant in propane is not "garlic oil" it ethyl mercaptan..

The following link is for Propane safety as it relates to residences , but IS VERY APPLICABLE to TD's...

http://www.gasco-propane.com/Files/safety.html

Be safe!

Dale

[benzu]

Thanks Dale for the wealth of information,

Don’t use a catalytic heater inside the cabin.

Chuck, Why not?

I have a catalytic heater for the inside, I thought if I followed the instructions I'd be safe. It says that the sides and bottom of heater has to be 6 iches away from something cumbustable and 14 inches from the top and 30 inches from the front. It also says to vent, which I have a fantastic fan up top and two windows on either side. If I crack each one a bit I would assume that would be enough.

Mike

[Dale M.]

Thanks Dale for the wealth of information,

Don’t use a catalytic heater inside the cabin.

Chuck, Why not?

I have a catalytic heater for the inside, I thought if I followed the instructions I'd be safe. It says that the sides and bottom of heater has to be 6 iches away from something cumbustable and 14 inches from the top and 30 inches from the front. It also says to vent, which I have a fantastic fan up top and two windows on either side. If I crack each one a bit I would assume that would be enough.

Mike

Catalytic heaters produce carbon monoxide....

Catalytic heaters, are not direct vented outside ...

If you use one and by some fluke of fate, you forget to open vents or they become blocked , it could be a long long long sleep....

Dale

[Classic Finn]

So you folks are allowed to install your own gas lines onto trailers or tears? Here this type of work must be done by professionals ..and they must be licensed and qualified to do it..

Strict Laws Again.. but its for safety.

Classic Finn

Heikki-

I think this falls into the "it's easier to be forgiven than ask permission" catagory

BUT it does bring up a good point, don't attempt something unless you are knowledgable AND comfortable doing it.

Cheers,

Coop

Hi Coop

I must admit.. I dont know enough about it to even attempt it.. I can use a gas grill and gas stove but doing the plumbing for it... I,ll turn to the pros..

Heikki

[capnTelescope]

Catalytic heaters produce carbon monoxide....

I think Dale may be in error on this one.

This from a manufacturer of industrial cat heaters: (http://www.catcousa.com/products.htm)

In a catalytic heater, the chemical reaction of oxidizing (burning) natural gas or propane is slowed to about 65% of normal, resulting in a safe, flameless source of radiant heat. ...

<snip>

... The only by-products of combustion (other than heat) are carbon dioxide and water vapor. Carbon monoxide, a result of inefficient combustion, is not measurable.

Also, my Coleman cat heater claims to be "tent safe." That doesn't mean I particularly trust the thing, but it's usually warm enough here in SoCal that I haven't ever felt the need to test the theory. It does stand to reason that since the combustion is a catalytic reaction, it would be complete and no CO would be produced.

I think that as long as your cabin is ventilated, you're OK.

[Dale M.]

SO... What If heater is not made by Catco and what if its not adjusted correctly... One concerned manufacturer with a disclaimer does not make a whole industry safe....

And it does state it "could" be a problem if it is maladjusted....

I stand by my previous statement....

Dale

[benzu]

Killing my self and family is a concern that I have, we will be using the heater occassionally and when we do we will have a Carbon Monoxide alarm plugged in. I'll even do tests with the alarm and no people before subjecting myself to the heater. If it doesn't work then we will go another route.

Thanks again for your concernes.

Mike

[capnTelescope]

I endorse Benzu's CO alarm idea for any form of combustion heat. Test that sucker before you even leave home. As I said in my first post, I don't completely trust my Coleman cat heater, either.

There are two points that I totally neglected to make in my first post: 1.) a cat heater is likely to be more CO safe than an open flame heater which REQUIRES a vent to the outside. How well do you trust yourself to design and install adequate venting? and 2.)a cat heater is likely more fire safe than an open flame heater, as well as being more fuel efficient. Overall, I think the cat is a superior choice for heating the small space of a TD. I wouldn't categorically rule out the cat.

Since both Catco and Coleman (and others, as far as I know) make claims of CO safety, and since they are "betting the company" on these statements, I have to think the claims are based on sound science. They aren't going to say that just to sell more cats while killing their customers.

But I don't care what they say, I'm not "betting me." I'm leaving the vents and windows cracked, just to be on the safe side.

Maybe we can hear from others who have used cat heaters in their tents or TDs and lived to tell the tale.

[goldcoop]

Maybe we can hear from others who have used cat heaters in their tents or TDs and lived to tell the tale.

OK-

I do a fair amount of Winter camping here in PA with temps around 10 degrees F.

I do use a Coleman SportCat to knock down the chill and the faithful mutt for additional warmth.

I do keep the door window cracked about 1/2" & the roof vent open about the same, ALWAYS!

Cheers,

Coop

[bobhenry]

So you folks are allowed to install your own gas lines onto trailers or tears? Here this type of work must be done by professionals ..and they must be licensed and qualified to do it..

Strict Laws Again.. but its for safety.

Classic Finn

Ah yes , The good USA

land of the free and the home of the afixiated.

Thin the herd !!

[brian_bp]

Another question regarding the propane tank. Is it o.k. to have the propane tank in the same box as the battery and wires or is this a bomb ready to happen? I can put a seperation in the tounge box to seperate the Propane tank from everything else but not sure if that is enough protection.

In the same space... yes, possible bomb-in-waiting.

I don't see why a properly partitioned box would be any different from two boxes mounted side-by-side. To properly partition, separate access hatches/lids seem like a good idea. Battery boxes and propane tanks (open or minimally enclosed) are adjacent on virtually every travel trailer.

I agree that the propane side needs venting, especially out the bottom. The battery side needs venting (for hydrogen gas), especially out the top.

[Chuck Craven]

Thanks Dale for the wealth of information,

Don’t use a catalytic heater inside the cabin.

Chuck, Why not?

I have a catalytic heater for the inside, I thought if I followed the instructions I'd be safe. It says that the sides and bottom of heater has to be 6 iches away from something cumbustable and 14 inches from the top and 30 inches from the front. It also says to vent, which I have a fantastic fan up top and two windows on either side. If I crack each one a bit I would assume that would be enough.

Mike

A cheep catalytic heater produces CO2 and Carbon monoxide and good expensive catalytic heaters produces CO2. CO2 is heaver than air, so it displaces air. Got a roof vent out goes the air and the CO2 fills the cabin. The carbon monoxide detectors will sound an alarm when the cabin is at the danger level but it may be too late for you to hear it and react. Especially if you been drinking. Also the carbon monoxide detectors do a poor job detecting CO2 and the level may be deadly in a small space like the cabin of a tear. Some one said they can be used in a tent! Most tents leek air like a sieve. But a few years ago some one hear in Wisconsin died in a tent with a catalytic heater running. Just remember that your tear is not a tent on wheels.

Chuck

[benzu]

Thanks, for your concerns I'll talk it over with the wife. The reason that we didn't go with a outside vented gas heater is that we didn't want to take up the precious room and the cost was too high. Now I know most of you will have the response, your life is worth the cost or something like that. I'll rethink the heater idea, and get back to you all. My wifes going to love this.

Mike