I’m just curious about firearms and camping

[Rick Sheerin]

I've got nothing against anyone owning or carrying a gun, as long as they do it legally. If you're packin or concealing a weapon at a campground or anywhere else where it is illegal, you are breaking the law. So now who is the criminal? Think about it, you are commiting a criminal act to protect yourself from someone you think might commit a criminal act. Sounds a little paranoid to me. Just my two cents.

[johnnlynn2]

This is a very interesting topic! I'm gathering info and specs from all the topics to build a TD and I do know that a Gun Safe in the TD would surely throw the center of gravity off a little bit.

We grew up around guns and were taught to respect them. There are guns around the house if needed in a hurry and I do have Carry Permit in my state and should start carrying something with me. Sure, some folks think people are paranoid, but there are too many muggers, robberies or junkies looking for anything you have. What about road rage by someone behind you if you're going too slow with your TD. I had it happen last night just driving on the way home. A handgun visible a good deterent to stop you from being a crime victim. If it comes to you or him, then the trigger is to be pulled as a last resort. At a campgound, the handgun could be locked up in the car but I still would like the protection going to there and on the way home, a steel frame, not one of those Plastic Pistols aka Tactical Tupperware!
John

[starleen2]

I’ve been reading some of the post so far and one question comes to mind: has anyone here been shot (gunshot) either accidentally or (god forbid) on purpose?

Not very many answers here – just one so far from a vet doing his duty – shot and shooter in one. Just to mention that I have been shot in the hand (by accident) in a hunting accident even though I did not carry a gun at the time. I choose not to own because I know accidents happen and know first hand (pun) what it does and the cost involved. To this day I still bear the scar and thankful that it was just my hand.. My brother was shot twice by his wife on Christmas day – what a present. He survived and quickly became a believer that guns are not always the solution. Don’t get me wrong I do know how to handle a weapon complements of the US Marine Corp. Confrontation always escalates the violence. However I do know how to get out of the way and how to protect my family. I WILL use whatever I can find and yes it maybe a little messy when I am done! If I drive too slow, just pass me by and give me the finger – been flipped off by old people who though I drove too slow!

[Beowulf]

I have always taken a gun camping, not for protection but recreation. Generally the groups that I camp with at some point during the trip will want to go "shoot". We will go find a safe and legal place to target practice as well as try out each others guns. Gatherings like this is where I learned to shoot and seems to be a common tradition here in the west. As far as having a gun in a campground around here (Utah) it is ok as long as the gun is unloaded and packed away to prevent use. Even Yellowstone has this rule.

Weapons and firearms, including state-permitted concealed weapons, are not allowed in Yellowstone. Unloaded firearms may be transported in a vehicle when the weapon is cased, broken down or rendered inoperable, and kept out of sight. Ammunition must be placed in a separate compartment of the vehicle.

As far as protection here is a local story that happened in a Wal-mart parking lot.

CEDAR CITY, Utah — A Florida woman says that before he tried to choke her husband and was killed by a shotgun blast, Steven Stubbs forced his way into their motor home and said he wanted to go south.
"We thought he was security, so that’s why we opened the door," "We tried shoving. We tried screaming," but Stubbs braced himself in the doorway and wouldn't leave" he began choking her husband.My babies, my children, were two feet away from him,"

This is a man that grew up here and was on vacation with his wife and two children when this incident happened. Granted this is a rare occurrence but I am sure he and his family are glad they had a gun.

As far as bear spray or mace it can be somewhat effective but if the wind carries or it splashes back now you are in a far worse situation than before. On a more humorous note while working for a public utility a new gal brought some pepper spray to work to use on troublesome dogs. I explained why we don't carry that on the job and got the what do you know attitude in return. So as she was pushing the small size can into her rather tight jeans she accidentally pushed the button on top. As the color drained from her face and she ran to the bathroom to wash it off the rest of the crew enjoyed a better morning than we had been having before. Oh and she ended up taking the rest of the day off.

[MSG Hall]

here is an article I found, it should help to explain the "gun thing" to our friends in other countries....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?
by L. Neil Smith

Over the past 30 years, I've been paid to write almost two million words, every one of which, sooner or later, came back to the issue of guns and gun-ownership. Naturally, I've thought about the issue a lot, and it has always determined the way I vote.

People accuse me of being a single-issue writer, a single- issue thinker, and a single- issue voter, but it isn't true. What I've chosen, in a world where there's never enough time and energy, is to focus on the one political issue which most clearly and unmistakably demonstrates what any politician -- or political philosophy -- is made of, right down to the creamy liquid center.

Make no mistake: all politicians -- even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership -- hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician -- or political philosophy -- can be put.

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims.

What his attitude -- toward your ownership and use of weapons -- conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn't trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him?

If he doesn't want you to have the means of defending your life, do you want him in a position to control it?

If he makes excuses about obeying a law he's sworn to uphold and defend -- the highest law of the land, the Bill of Rights -- do you want to entrust him with anything?

If he ignores you, sneers at you, complains about you, or defames you, if he calls you names only he thinks are evil -- like "Constitutionalist" -- when you insist that he account for himself, hasn't he betrayed his oath, isn't he unfit to hold office, and doesn't he really belong in jail?

Sure, these are all leading questions. They're the questions that led me to the issue of guns and gun ownership as the clearest and most unmistakable demonstration of what any given politician -- or political philosophy -- is really made of.

He may lecture you about the dangerous weirdos out there who shouldn't have a gun -- but what does that have to do with you? Why in the name of John Moses Browning should you be made to suffer for the misdeeds of others? Didn't you lay aside the infantile notion of group punishment when you left public school -- or the military? Isn't it an essentially European notion, anyway -- Prussian, maybe -- and certainly not what America was supposed to be all about?

And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them? Forget about those other people, those dangerous weirdos, this is about you, and it has been, all along.

Try it yourself: if a politician won't trust you, why should you trust him? If he's a man -- and you're not -- what does his lack of trust tell you about his real attitude toward women? If "he" happens to be a woman, what makes her so perverse that she's eager to render her fellow women helpless on the mean and seedy streets her policies helped create? Should you believe her when she says she wants to help you by imposing some infantile group health care program on you at the point of the kind of gun she doesn't want you to have?

On the other hand -- or the other party -- should you believe anything politicians say who claim they stand for freedom, but drag their feet and make excuses about repealing limits on your right to own and carry weapons? What does this tell you about their real motives for ignoring voters and ramming through one infantile group trade agreement after another with other countries?

Makes voting simpler, doesn't it? You don't have to study every issue -- health care, international trade -- all you have to do is use this X-ray machine, this Vulcan mind-meld, to get beyond their empty words and find out how politicians really feel. About you. And that, of course, is why they hate it.

And that's why I'm accused of being a single-issue writer, thinker, and voter.
But it isn't true, is it?

[madjack]

I would just like to clarify a couple of things about my "packing"...I have never needed or seen a need for a firearm at a state, federal or even private campground that is patrolled...I carry one for protection on the trip there...you will NEVER see my weapon, unless I see yours first and there is no way out...showing your weapon as a "deterrent" will usually cause an escalation...if I pull a weapon, it will be because I need to use it NOW...I, my family and friends have always had firearms and are EXTREMELY careful and safety conscious in their use and handling...if you truly believe you will not ever need a weapon, good for you...BUT read the American Rifleman or newspapers from around the country and know that everyday, someone is robbed, raped or killed while going about their everyday business...I will not willingly leave myself or my family defensless or depend on the cop that is miles away, for my protection...I am a Southern gun owner and will take care of it myself, if the need arises...I don't believe that any form of paranoia has anything to do with the above statements...it is just the way I was raised...different folks, different places, different cultures.......
madjack

[Ira]

.it is just the way I was raised...different folks, different places, different cultures.......
madjack

That's the thing:

I grew up in Brooklyn, and believe it or not, there were and still are good parts there. Never saw a gun in my life there.

Go to some parts of Brooklyn nowadays and you would have to be nuts NOT to carry a gun, the law be damned. So yeah, you can condemn the 15-year-old ghetto kid for packing heat, but if you were stuck living in that neighborhood, you would also break the law to save yourself.

Bears in the woods…mugger in the alley…same thing.

Never had any real interest in guns, and I'm the kind of dope who would think it's unloaded and killl myself. But I got no problem with others who are into them on any level.

Hell, they're the ones who are gonna save ME one day.

Or maybe not.

[Tripmaker]

.it is just the way I was raised...different folks, different places, different cultures.......
madjack

That's the thing:

I grew up in Brooklyn, and believe it or not, there were and still are good parts there. Never saw a gun in my life there.

Go to some parts of Brooklyn nowadays and you would have to be nuts NOT to carry a gun, the law be damned. So yeah, you can condemn the 15-year-old ghetto kid for packing heat, but if you were stuck living in that neighborhood, you would also break the law to save yourself.

Ira,

It's that 15 year old kid that is the problem. He has nothing, and has nothing to lose. The only thing he does have to give him any self esteem is the gun. He THINKS it makes him a man and that it elevates him among his peers. A very dangerous situation.

Resopnsible adults, with proper training and licensing is an entirely different matter. But again it is a personal decision we all have to make.

I also grew up in New York, on Lon Guyland. As someone stated earlier I would not want to be caught anywhere in NY state with an unlicensed handgun. Here in Indiana anyone without a criminal record can get a license to carry. However, in the state parks, it has to be unloaded and locked away. I believe that part of it is part of our hunting laws. Maybe someone else on the forum from Indiana knows for sure.

[Ira]

It's that 15 year old kid that is the problem. He has nothing, and has nothing to lose. The only thing he does have to give him any self esteem is the gun. He THINKS it makes him a man and that it elevates him among his peers. A very dangerous situation.

I think you're HALF correct here:

Yeah, half of them have them to feel like bigshots, but I sincerely believe the other half carry out of shere self-preservation.

[Tripmaker]

It's that 15 year old kid that is the problem. He has nothing, and has nothing to lose. The only thing he does have to give him any self esteem is the gun. He THINKS it makes him a man and that it elevates him among his peers. A very dangerous situation.

I think you're HALF correct here:

Yeah, half of them have them to feel like bigshots, but I sincerely believe the other half carry out of shere self-preservation.

You may be right. It is certainly a different culture and environment.

[caseydog]

here is an article I found, it should help to explain the "gun thing" to our friends in other countries....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?
by L. Neil Smith

Over the past 30 years, I've been paid to write almost two million words, every one of which, sooner or later, came back to the issue of guns and gun-ownership. Naturally, I've thought about the issue a lot, and it has always determined the way I vote.

People accuse me of being a single-issue writer, a single- issue thinker, and a single- issue voter, but it isn't true. What I've chosen, in a world where there's never enough time and energy, is to focus on the one political issue which most clearly and unmistakably demonstrates what any politician -- or political philosophy -- is made of, right down to the creamy liquid center.

Make no mistake: all politicians -- even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership -- hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician -- or political philosophy -- can be put.

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims.

What his attitude -- toward your ownership and use of weapons -- conveys is his real attitude about you. And if he doesn't trust you, then why in the name of John Moses Browning should you trust him?

If he doesn't want you to have the means of defending your life, do you want him in a position to control it?

If he makes excuses about obeying a law he's sworn to uphold and defend -- the highest law of the land, the Bill of Rights -- do you want to entrust him with anything?

If he ignores you, sneers at you, complains about you, or defames you, if he calls you names only he thinks are evil -- like "Constitutionalist" -- when you insist that he account for himself, hasn't he betrayed his oath, isn't he unfit to hold office, and doesn't he really belong in jail?

Sure, these are all leading questions. They're the questions that led me to the issue of guns and gun ownership as the clearest and most unmistakable demonstration of what any given politician -- or political philosophy -- is really made of.

He may lecture you about the dangerous weirdos out there who shouldn't have a gun -- but what does that have to do with you? Why in the name of John Moses Browning should you be made to suffer for the misdeeds of others? Didn't you lay aside the infantile notion of group punishment when you left public school -- or the military? Isn't it an essentially European notion, anyway -- Prussian, maybe -- and certainly not what America was supposed to be all about?

And if there are dangerous weirdos out there, does it make sense to deprive you of the means of protecting yourself from them? Forget about those other people, those dangerous weirdos, this is about you, and it has been, all along.

Try it yourself: if a politician won't trust you, why should you trust him? If he's a man -- and you're not -- what does his lack of trust tell you about his real attitude toward women? If "he" happens to be a woman, what makes her so perverse that she's eager to render her fellow women helpless on the mean and seedy streets her policies helped create? Should you believe her when she says she wants to help you by imposing some infantile group health care program on you at the point of the kind of gun she doesn't want you to have?

On the other hand -- or the other party -- should you believe anything politicians say who claim they stand for freedom, but drag their feet and make excuses about repealing limits on your right to own and carry weapons? What does this tell you about their real motives for ignoring voters and ramming through one infantile group trade agreement after another with other countries?

Makes voting simpler, doesn't it? You don't have to study every issue -- health care, international trade -- all you have to do is use this X-ray machine, this Vulcan mind-meld, to get beyond their empty words and find out how politicians really feel. About you. And that, of course, is why they hate it.

And that's why I'm accused of being a single-issue writer, thinker, and voter.
But it isn't true, is it?

This is the kind of narrow thinking that I don't get. Anyone who would chose a candidate based on a litmus test about guns is obsessed, IMO.

There are lawsuits and debates going on in legislatures ove whether or not churches can ban concealed weapons form their properties. Churches.

What happened to common sense?

I own guns, but I also support reasonable laws controlling them.

This is another one of those emotionally charged, black and white, either-or issues in America.

Quote: If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you.

If he isn't genuinely enthusiastic about his average constituent stuffing that weapon into a purse or pocket or tucking it under a coat and walking home without asking anybody's permission, he's a four-flusher, no matter what he claims.

I guess I'm not "your friend", and apparently I'm a "four-flusher", whatever that means. I'm one of those really crazy people who believes that there is a middle ground that makes sense.

Call me a commie-pinko liberal, but I have issues with "a responsible child walking into a store and buying a machinegun."

The overwhealming majority of Americans are in favor of reasonable gun-control laws, and I would suggest that just about everyone would have trouble with kids buying guns, but this debate is always framed in extremes.

I'm tired of being put into a position of "choosing sides" with the extreme elements that dominate this, and a lot of other debates.

As for bringing guns to gatherings, I don't see the reason, but if it makes some folks "feel" safer, then fine. However, I am going to be a lot more aware of who is around me at gatherings. I don't worry about somebody like MadJack having a gun in his car. From his posts, and from meeting him, my impression is that he's a level-headed, calm, and reasonable guy. But, there are other folks I'm not so sure about.

If any arguments get going at a future gathering, I may find myself feeling inclinded to take cover, before the bullets start flying.

I suggest people make darn sure they go back to the right TD after a midnight trip to the bathroom. Trying to open the wrong door could get you filled up with lead.

CD

[johnnlynn2]

I should clarify my statement about a handgun visible as a deterrent, I don't mean to show everybody a hangun and they will leave me alone but if I am confronted by a mugger with a knife or a guy with road rage gets in my face, a pistol in my hand could disfuse the situation, without shooting which would be the last resort. Everybody has heard the one about "the guy that brought a knife to a gun fight", but if a gun is stuck in my face first, it's not time to play John Wayne.
Years ago, I would ride my mountain bike in the country. Three punks tried to run me off the road, I found out who was driving, went to his house and warned him never to do anything like that since lives would change. After that incident, I upgraded from the .25 to the .357 when I went on the bike which has a pouch on the frame tube. Shortly after that time I was pedaling along and a guy with his woman in an old beat up pickup drove along side me and he glared at me then pulled over onto the berm about 50 ft. in front of me. I stopped on the berm and stood straddling the bike keeping eye contact with him. He was still glaring at me and when he put the pickup in reverse but still didn't move, I put my hand into the pouch to grab the .357 if I had to pull it out if he tried to run me over. I watched him and he watched me, he may have thought I had something for protection so he blinked and left. Nothing was shown but my actions were a deterrent.
I'm not a poker player but I've heard you never tip your hand if you have an ace or two.

[brian_bp]

here is an article I found, it should help to explain the "gun thing" to our friends in other countries....

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Why Did it Have to be ... Guns?
by L. Neil Smith

Over the past 30 years, I've been paid to write almost two million words, every one of which, sooner or later, came back to the issue of guns and gun-ownership. Naturally, I've thought about the issue a lot, and it has always determined the way I vote.

People accuse me of being a single-issue writer, a single- issue thinker, and a single- issue voter, but it isn't true. What I've chosen, in a world where there's never enough time and energy, is to focus on the one political issue which most clearly and unmistakably demonstrates what any politician -- or political philosophy -- is made of, right down to the creamy liquid center.

Make no mistake: all politicians -- even those ostensibly on the side of guns and gun ownership -- hate the issue and anyone, like me, who insists on bringing it up. They hate it because it's an X-ray machine. It's a Vulcan mind-meld. It's the ultimate test to which any politician -- or political philosophy -- can be put.

If a politician isn't perfectly comfortable with the idea of his average constituent, any man, woman, or responsible child, walking into a hardware store and paying cash -- for any rifle, shotgun, handgun, machinegun, anything -- without producing ID or signing one scrap of paper, he isn't your friend no matter what he tells you...

I started skimming more quickly at this point in the rant, and quit entirely shortly thereafter.

A blatantly extreme opinion from one person certainly won't "explain the 'gun thing'" to anyone. There are probably people with this viewpoint in every country, and those countries choose a variety of approaches to handling firearms.

By the way, to ensure a reasonable response, I went back and did finish reading that article. My position is unchanged.

[brian_bp]

So, johnnlynn2, you went to someone's home and threatened them, presumably with violence... maybe read Madjack's comments about escalation, and take a tranquilizer before camping around me - or leave the firearms at home - because I don't want some incident being blown up into an armed confrontation when I'm within range of the crossfire.

And what is appropriate for a campground was the topic of the discussion.

[wolfiebites]

I've stopped a pit bull, on the attack, with pepper spray, and I've never
sprayed myself, with or without wind...If I had enough money, I'd pack
a gun, while camping. Last year, I was camping at Bodega Dunes, and
was leaving the park, and noticed a really scary van parked in front, of
the ranger station. I started to stop at the ranger station, with caution,
and a man, who looked like, Charlie Manson, walked towards, my truck,
holding up his hand, motioning me to stop. Well, I'am no 51 year old stupid
women, I locked my door and stepped on the gas. The ranger station,
was closed. Since, I was going to Doran park, a few miles down the
the road, I reported the incident, to the rangers, there, and they called
someone to check it out. When, I got back, after walking my dog, the
rangers, had the the guy in cuffs.

Later, one of the rangers, came to my campsite, and asked
me what happened, he asked if the guy was trying to kidnap, me. I told
him, I didn't give him the chance. The ranger, told me that it was a good
thing, I took off. The guy, was just out of jail, and still wearing, his orange
jumpsuit, under his clothes, and that he had violated his parole. The
ranger, didn't tell, me anymore and I didn't ask, but he certainly, said
everything with his tone, and his eyes...

As, it turns out, I didn't need, my pepper spray or a gun, but I could of......