Shocking News - Just a few Kilometers Away

Things that don't fit anywhere else...

Postby Classic Finn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 1:56 pm

AmyH wrote:Heikki, I just read the news this morning and was so saddened to hear about this. I have almost come to expect to hear about stuff like this happening in the U.S. (as sad as that is), but it is shocking to hear about it happening over there where you are. My thoughts go out to everyone affected by this tragedy.


Crisis Centers have been set up.

As the people here say on the news that Our Society has grown with the word of being safe for everyone, going to school without fear.

Going to shopping centers without the worry of our children being kidnapped.

And above all our children sleeping outside in the carriage in the yard.

These are things we know.

This has happened in the States and Europe but here in Scandinavia we have never had to deal with things like this..

So what more can I say.. except we mourn for these kids and their parents who have to deal with the loss for years to come.

And all I can say here in our Society Guns are not the answer no matter how a opinion may me different. And I dont care to get into a debate or discussion about it.

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Postby Micro469 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:47 pm

Unfortunately, this is not a new phenomenon..When My sister was 17..around 1975 a student walked into her school and started shooting at people..He was mad at the Phys. Ed. teacher. It happened near her locker... If she had been at school that day, she would have been in the line of fire at that time.
This is something that has been going on for many years...
Gun advocates say that guns don't kill people, people kill people....True...But people with GUNS kill people..... The best way to remedy that is to get rid of all guns...
Sorry all you gunlovers...If your a hunter..fine...Your gun should be locked up in a police controlled environment , and should be signed in and out as needed.. If your a gun collector...You are a sick puppy...
As you can tell..I'm not a gun lover. They are made to kill, whether it be animal or human...I say they have no place in our society.
You say you have it for protection... If no one has a gun, you don't need it then ,right??
But then, I live in a dream world.....
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Postby Classic Finn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:53 pm

You say its not a new phenomenon ...Here believe it or not but first of its kind in Finland's History.

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Postby Classic Finn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:55 pm

Here,s from Cnn

HELSINKI, Finland (CNN) -- At least eight people were killed when an 18-year-old gunman opened fire at a school in Finland Wednesday, according to Finnish police. The shooting appeared to have been planned out in graphic videos posted on Internet file-sharing site YouTube.


An image from a video posted on YouTube by "Sturmgeist89."

1 of 3 more photos » At a press conference this afternoon, police confirmed the dead numbered two girls, five boys and the school's headmistress at Jokela High in Tuusula, a quiet town around 50 kilometers (30 miles) north of Helsinki.

The shooter, who police named as Pekka Eric Auvinen, is in a critical condition at Toolo Hospital, Dr. Eeero Hirvensalo told CNN. Police believe he tried to take his own life.

At least 12 people sustained minor injuries and "are in no danger now," Hirvensalo added.

The shooting, believed to be the first of its kind in Finland's history, was the work of Pekka Eric Auvinen, who police said is from Tuusula and who acted alone. He had no previous criminal record and had never threatened anyone from the school before, they added.


Auvinen published a manifesto online demanding war on the "weak-minded masses" and pledged to die for his cause.

YouTube appeared to have removed 89 videos linked to his account, many of them featuring Nazi imagery, shortly after the incident.

Finnish media reported someone posted a message two weeks ago on the Web site, warning of a bloodbath at the school.

A video posted earlier Wednesday, by "Sturmgeist89," was titled "Jokela High School Massacre - 11/7/2007." "Sturmgeist89" identified himself as Auvinen, and said he chose the name "Sturmgeist" because it means "storm spirit" in German.

The video showed a picture of the school, which then disintegrated to reveal two images of Auvinen against a red background, pointing a gun at the screen.

The clip is accompanied by the song "Stray Bullet" from rock band KMFDM. Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold, the students behind the 1999 Columbine High School massacre, also cited that group's lyrics.

Another short video clip, called "Just Testing My Gun," showed Auvinen loading and cocking a handgun. He fired and hit several pieces of fruit in a wooded area; the camera then showed a close-up of the destroyed fruit, and then a full-screen shot of him again. He waved at the camera and then walked out of view.

The site indicated that the youth appeared to be fascinated with killing. As well as video footage of the Columbine school shootings, it also included clips of the 1993 Waco siege in the United States, the 1995 sarin gas attack in Tokyo, and bombs falling on Baghdad during the 2003 invasion.

Many showed victims being wheeled away or people running for their lives. Throughout all of this, the single word "DIE" constantly flashed across the screen. Other video clips included Nazi-war-criminal footage.

In the rambling text posted on the site, Auvinen said that he is "a cynical existentialist, anti-human humanist, anti-social social-Darwinist, realistic idealist and god-like atheist.

"I am prepared to fight and die for my cause," he wrote. "I, as a natural selector, will eliminate all who I see unfit, disgraces of human race and failures of natural selection."

The police said at this afternoon's press conference that they had been fired at when they arrived at the school at 11.45pm local time (9.45am GMT).

They described the scene as chaotic, with some of the 460 students, ranging in age from 12 to 18, breaking windows in an attempt to escape.

When the police's special SWAT unit entered the high school they found the gunman unconscious and in critical condition in the lower lobby of the building with a gunshot wound to his head. Police assume he tried to take his own life as no officers fired at him.

Several bodies were also found in the same location, where the shooting is believed to have begun, they added.

They could not confirm comments by some students that Auvinen was firing through doors.

Police also said that the gun Auvinen used, which was fully licensed, had been purchased less than a month ago on October 19. The legal age limit to own a gun in Finland is 18, which Auvinen passed in June of this year.

He had a recommendation from a shooting club when he obtained the gun, police added, and practised sharp-shooting as a hobby at a shooting range.

Finland, which enjoys a strong tradition of hunting, has a high proportion of gun ownership, with two million firearms owned in a nation of only five million.

The Associated Press reported comments from Kim Kiuru, one of the school's teachers, on radio station YLE.

Kiuru described how the headmistress used the public address system around noon to tell pupils to stay in classrooms.

He said he locked his classroom door, then waited in the corridor for more news.


"After that I saw the gunman running with what appeared to be a small-caliber handgun in his hand through the doors towards me, after which I escaped to the corridor downstairs and ran in the opposite direction, " Kiuru said.

The agency reported Kiuru as saying that he saw a woman's body as he fled the school, before telling his pupils to leave the building through the windows.

headmistress - means principal of the school
Last edited by Classic Finn on Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby sid » Wed Nov 07, 2007 2:57 pm

Thoughts and prayers are with you all Heikki.

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Postby Classic Finn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:02 pm

sid wrote:Thoughts and prayers are with you all Heikki.

sid


Thank You, its so hard to imagine this has happened. Especially here.

Its never been experienced in our Country. But I guess it has been now. We live between Helsinki and Tuusula where this took place. It takes me 10 minutes to get there.

Classic Finn ;)

Looks like Finland made the World Headlines but I sure didnt want it to be this way..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/ ... 4828.shtml
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Postby caseydog » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:31 pm

Heikki, I hope people in Finland don't let fear change them too much. Here in the states, it seems we base most of our personal decisions and public policy choices on fear, these days. All we see on TV News shows is murder and mayhem, and everyone is arming themselves and becoming prisoners in their own homes at night. That's no way to live.

BTW, have any of you folks in my age group (46) looked at any of the video games that kids are playing these days?

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Postby Classic Finn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:44 pm

caseydog wrote:Heikki, I hope people in Finland don't let fear change them too much. Here in the states, it seems we base most of our personal decisions and public policy choices on fear, these days. All we see on TV News shows is murder and mayhem, and everyone is arming themselves and becoming prisoners in their own homes at night. That's no way to live.

BTW, have any of you folks in my age group (46) looked at any of the video games that kids are playing these days?

CD


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I think at this present time the way to state the feelings amongst us all is
Total Shock. Disbelief.

But our people are such that we havent let fear take a total hold of us yet anyway. And guns will not change this.

Yes we have seen the games our young play here however our family also have restricted many of them. As far as what they play with friends and at their homes is not totally known.

Also we have restricted certain websites from the oldest but how much can we really control is the word..

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Postby Micro469 » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:46 pm

Classic Finn wrote:
sid wrote:Thoughts and prayers are with you all Heikki.

sid


Thank You, its so hard to imagine this has happened. Especially here.

Its never been experienced in our Country. But I guess it has been now. We live between Helsinki and Tuusula where this took place. It takes me 10 minutes to get there.

Classic Finn ;)

Looks like Finland made the World Headlines but I sure didnt want it to be this way..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/ ... 4828.shtml[/quote



Heikke.. The fact that news nowadays travels in seconds.. not days or weeks like it did 30 or 50 years ago doesn't give people time to think of the consequences of their actions.."monkey see ... monkey do..."

It's a sad thing....
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Postby Miriam C. » Wed Nov 07, 2007 3:55 pm

Finland, which enjoys a strong tradition of hunting, has a high proportion of gun ownership, with two million firearms owned in a nation of only five million.


Heikki it is a testament to the spirit of the People of Finland that this is the first incident. Clearly they are a peace loving people who raise their children right. I remember the Norwegians putting their carriages out for their children to sleep in the sun and fresh air. Not something I could bring myself to do. When a society as a whole value it's children this kind of safety can exist.

It seems other influences reached a clearly troubled man and took over. It is all so sad.
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Postby Classic Finn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:04 pm

Miriam C. wrote:
Finland, which enjoys a strong tradition of hunting, has a high proportion of gun ownership, with two million firearms owned in a nation of only five million.


Heikki it is a testament to the spirit of the People of Finland that this is the first incident. Clearly they are a peace loving people who raise their children right. I remember the Norwegians putting their carriages out for their children to sleep in the sun and fresh air. Not something I could bring myself to do. When a society as a whole value it's children this kind of safety can exist.

It seems other influences reached a clearly troubled man and took over. It is all so sad.


In Norway yes its the same, as well as in Sweden.

Im sure this will bring new debate here and our parliament and government will work upon new and stricter laws. What they will be I cant say. But you can bet on it.

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Postby Classic Finn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:05 pm

Micro469 wrote:
Classic Finn wrote:
sid wrote:Thoughts and prayers are with you all Heikki.

sid


Thank You, its so hard to imagine this has happened. Especially here.

Its never been experienced in our Country. But I guess it has been now. We live between Helsinki and Tuusula where this took place. It takes me 10 minutes to get there.

Classic Finn ;)

Looks like Finland made the World Headlines but I sure didnt want it to be this way..

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/11/ ... 4828.shtml[/quote



Heikke.. The fact that news nowadays travels in seconds.. not days or weeks like it did 30 or 50 years ago doesn't give people time to think of the consequences of their actions.."monkey see ... monkey do..."

It's a sad thing....


Yes your absolutely correct.

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Postby Italia » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:10 pm

I'm so sorry Heikki
we send our prayers to all.

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Postby Classic Finn » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:20 pm

Italia wrote:I'm so sorry Heikki
we send our prayers to all.

Chris


Thank You for the prayers our country can use many at this time. thank The good Lord our kids were not icluded in this tragedy but it does affect us all here indirectly.

Heikki
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Postby sid » Wed Nov 07, 2007 4:20 pm

Thoughts and prayers are with you all Heikki.

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