In election 2008, don’t forget Angry White Man

[Doberman]

Dwight talks with John and gets us involved in Vietnam. Jimmy gives away the Panama Canal to China. Lyndon and Richard perpetuate the lies of the past as we invest our sons into the wood chipper. WELL, Ron probably did something bad but we all seemed to like him. 41 read my lips, no new taxes only a thousand points of light. Bill gave our Nucular (oops) nuclear secrets to China and IS (definition) still defining his legacy. 43 no fences, come on in everyone, free college and healthcare for all who cut in line, those who follow the laws _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (you fill in the blanks). There is supposed to be a space between the 4th and 5th hyphen).

Sorry folks, I love my country but I do not trust the government. I'm afraid I too have been a sheep and followed the person in front of me without much thought because it's easier that way. I have to admit I was a misguided youth in the 60's.

Pay attention and watch to see if their mouth is moving, then do the oposite.

[Miriam C.]

Very interesting, inspiring, and enlightening ... up to a point! I was with Gary 100%, right up until the last three paragraphs ... ... where it became crystal clear that it was just more of the same Right-wing Conservative Rhetoric and skillful wordsmithing that has burried us so deep for so long, and is aimed at keeping us there despite our supposed common sense ...

... It's the same old "If you feel and/or agree with this statement, then you must stand and/or vote for this candidate/law/regulation" kind of mentality that is total manipulative B.S.! The real TRUTH of the matter is that the truely enlightened and completely aware AWM (no matter that a woman or person of color can, indeed, qualify as an AWM!) is going to stand above all this kind of emotional & manipulative manure and vote and/or stand the way their own conscience and beliefs will guide them, no matter who the candidate or what the law or regulation!

And ... the sooner we ALL find a way to open our eyes and our minds and rise above the self-serving influences of others, the sooner all the changes that need to be made will be made, because it will be the will of the people guiding the hands of change and not the greedy corrupt power-hungry megalomaniacs currently at the helm ...

IMHO

CHEERS!

Grant

...thank you very much, Grant. I agree with YOU, 110%(great minds, doanchano)........................

What they said.

Claw

So cheating on your wife with something other than a male prostitute is OK

[Creamcracker]

Very interesting, inspiring, and enlightening ... up to a point! I was with Gary 100%, right up until the last three paragraphs ... ... where it became crystal clear that it was just more of the same Right-wing Conservative Rhetoric and skillful wordsmithing that has burried us so deep for so long, and is aimed at keeping us there despite our supposed common sense ...

... It's the same old "If you feel and/or agree with this statement, then you must stand and/or vote for this candidate/law/regulation" kind of mentality that is total manipulative B.S.! The real TRUTH of the matter is that the truely enlightened and completely aware AWM (no matter that a woman or person of color can, indeed, qualify as an AWM!) is going to stand above all this kind of emotional & manipulative manure and vote and/or stand the way their own conscience and beliefs will guide them, no matter who the candidate or what the law or regulation!

And ... the sooner we ALL find a way to open our eyes and our minds and rise above the self-serving influences of others, the sooner all the changes that need to be made will be made, because it will be the will of the people guiding the hands of change and not the greedy corrupt power-hungry megalomaniacs currently at the helm ...

IMHO

CHEERS!

Grant

Great response Grant. (I can't fathom why some people associate themselves with the angry brother rather than the generous father in the "Story of the Prodigal Son.")

[caseydog]

CD
So cheating on your wife with something other than a male prostitute is OK Name one individual conservative or liberal who cheats and has integrity, it is antithetical. But I'm sure it is just a way to argue when substance is unavaliable

Slowly freedoms are being eroded by those who think they know whats better than the individual. America didn't become the home of the 'lottery winners' as you discribe as the result of socialist government programs but by individuals who provide for themself and as a result provide opportunities for other to succeed within the private sector. Frustration or more intensely anger is the result of the squandering of resourses confiscated from the individual, presumedly for the greater good, by those in politics who generally have only their self interest in mind (lack of integrity).

You say; "And, I have met in life a lot of men with genuine integrity, who are still wrong, IMO.", a statement I can totally agree with and there my friend is what makes America great, the ablity to follow one's own trail as others shakes their head and mutter 'fool' because sometimes the 'fool' proves us wrong and makes everyones life better.

Let's take just one issue -- illegal immigration. It keeps coming up in this thread.

Why blame government, and call on government to fix the problem, especially when conservatives and libertarians call for "smaller" government?

What REALLY causes illegal immigration? The free market. They come here for jobs. They work for less money than Americans are willing to work for, which American business loves. Yet, I constantly hear calls for "government" to do something about this problem, generally calling for a fence, and more cops -- which equals more big-government spending.

Here is my "liberal" solution to illegal immigration. Arrest the guys who hire the cheap labor coming across the border. They KNOW who they are hiring. Dry up the supply of jobs for illegals to work, and they'll have nothing to come here for. No, they don't come here for welfare programs. That's right-wing propaganda. They may benefit from these programs, but it's not what brought 16 million Mexicans across the border. They came for the jobs, and American business welcomed them with open arms.

But arresting illegal employers would hurt "business," and we can't have that. So instead, we'll build a multi-billion dollar fence that will make us "feel good" about stopping the illegals. It won't work -- as long as there is a "supply" of jobs, and there is a "demand" for these jobs in Mexico, the illegal immigrants will come. That's free market capitalism at work, and conservatives and libertarians want to solve the problem with "big government spending."

And, let me say this once again (although it will be ignored), Mexico has the lowest income tax rates in the western world, and very few business-choking regulations. That should make Mexico the perfect place to live and work. It is EXACTLY what conservatives and Libertarians are calling for. Icing on the cake? Abortion is illegal in Mexico.

Yet, people are breaking the law to come HERE from Mexico, and I don't see a lot "angry white guys" going South of the border to experience the liberties denied them here.

I thank my lucky stars I was born white and male in America -- that I was born here at all is a major score. I live freer and better than most of the people on this planet. I really think that the people who think our liberties are eroding, and morals weakening, and all that "angry white guy" stuff just don't see how good they have it.

BTW, cheating on your spouse is a terribly selfish thing to do, no matter who it's with. My point was that Bill Clinton isn't an isolated incident, as conservatives wanted us to believe when they were spending hundreds of millions of taxpayer dollars impeaching him. Guys who condemed him were later caught writing letters to pages and trolling for sex in men's rooms.

[caseydog]

Dwight talks with John and gets us involved in Vietnam. Jimmy gives away the Panama Canal to China. Lyndon and Richard perpetuate the lies of the past as we invest our sons into the wood chipper. WELL, Ron probably did something bad but we all seemed to like him. 41 read my lips, no new taxes only a thousand points of light. Bill gave our Nucular (oops) nuclear secrets to China and IS (definition) still defining his legacy. 43 no fences, come on in everyone, free college and healthcare for all who cut in line, those who follow the laws _ _ _ _ _ _ _ (you fill in the blanks). There is supposed to be a space between the 4th and 5th hyphen).

Sorry folks, I love my country but I do not trust the government. I'm afraid I too have been a sheep and followed the person in front of me without much thought because it's easier that way. I have to admit I was a misguided youth in the 60's.

Pay attention and watch to see if their mouth is moving, then do the oposite.

I love this post, because it sums up the frustration Americans have with government. Some blame the liberals, others blame the conservatives, but most are just fed up with both extremes, and want a government that serves us better.

In two different ways, Ron Paul and Barack Obama are inspiring to a lot of people, because they are seen as a "breath of fresh air" to the people who like them.

Personally, I am a big fan of "split government," and history shows that to be the optimal condition. When one party has too much power, things go off the rails. Look at the first few years of Dubya's reign. On the other hand, a lot got done when Bill Clinton had a Republican congress to deal with -- well, except for a the time wasted trying to impeach the guy.

The whole idea of a democracy is not that a 51-percent majority get's to rule over the 49-percent minority. That's how it is plying out, lately. In a real democracy, the majority has to compromise. That's why our founders set up a bill of rights, and created a bicameral congress. It was all designed to keep the extremes from running roughshod over the masses.

This has been a pretty civil discussion, and I've enjoyed it. I lean left, but I respect the rights of the right. All I want is balance. Even with our current, somewhat dysfunctional political situation, I can't help thinking that I really have it good living in America. I wish the "angy" Americans would take a look around them, or better yet, travel the world, and see how good we have it.

[bobhenry]

And Ralph Nader is back !!!
What a guy resiliant as a rubber ball ! I caught about 5 minutes of him ranting and stand in total awe of his articulate use of the english language and his engineering like lodgic.

To bad we now have to buy the White house cause he won't have a chance in Hell but ya gotta love him for trying and trying and trying !

[Claw]

And, let me say this once again (although it will be ignored), Mexico has the lowest income tax rates in the western world, and very few business-choking regulations. That should make Mexico the perfect place to live and work. It is EXACTLY what conservatives and Libertarians are calling for. Icing on the cake? Abortion is illegal in Mexico.

Yet, people are breaking the law to come HERE from Mexico, and I don't see a lot "angry white guys" going South of the border to experience the liberties denied them here.

I thank my lucky stars I was born white and male in America -- that I was born here at all is a major score. I live freer and better than most of the people on this planet. I really think that the people who think our liberties are eroding, and morals weakening, and all that "angry white guy" stuff just don't see how good they have it.

CD we had this conversation in another thread. It is disingenuous to compare Mexico tax rate with the US tax rate because of the corruption in Mexico is a cost of doing business which can be worst than taxes as it is subjective and and potentially ever changing.

CD, you say "I really think that the people who think our liberties are eroding, and morals weakening, and all that "angry white guy" stuff just don't see how good they have it. "

It is not that AWM don't see how good they have it or they don't thank their 'lucky stars' it is they understand the boiled frog fable
http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/boiled.html

Honestly CD you and I are probably more similar than what our posts might indicate. It would be fun to sit about a fire with olives and vodka or is that gin and shoot the bull. We do have tear drops in common.

[Elumia]

I'm more the dirty white boy.....

Hey, baby, if youre feelin down
I know whats good for you all day
Are you worried what your friends see
Will it ruin your reputation lovin me

cause Im a dirty white boy
Yeah a dirty white boy
A dirty white boy

Dont drive no big black car
Dont like no hollywood movie star
You want me to be true to you
You dont give a damn what I do to you

Im just a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, dirty white boy
Dirty white boy

Well, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, yeah, dirty white boy
A dirty white boy

Ive been in trouble since I dont know when
Im in trouble now and I now somehow Ill find trouble again
Im a loner, but Im never alone
Every night I get one step closer to the danger zone

cause Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, yeah, dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy

Cmon, cmon boy
Dirty white boy, white boy
Dirty white boy, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy

Hey, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, yeah, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, dirty white boy, yeah


Mark

[caseydog]

CD we had this conversation in another thread. It is disingenuous to compare Mexico tax rate with the US tax rate because of the corruption in Mexico is a cost of doing business which can be worst than taxes as it is subjective and and potentially ever changing.

CD, you say "I really think that the people who think our liberties are eroding, and morals weakening, and all that "angry white guy" stuff just don't see how good they have it. "

It is not that AWM don't see how good they have it or they don't thank their 'lucky stars' it is they understand the boiled frog fable
http://allaboutfrogs.org/stories/boiled.html

Honestly CD you and I are probably more similar than what our posts might indicate. It would be fun to sit about a fire with olives and vodka or is that gin and shoot the bull. We do have tear drops in common.

I don't think we're all that similar, but that's okay. We do like teardrops, I'll give you that.

I gotta wonder... eroding from what? At what time in history were things "just right" in America? I imagine there has always been a "angry" constituency, and always will be.

And, I don't think it is at all disingenuous to site Mexico as as low-tax, low regulation, weak government example.

I think Mexico is a very good example of what the US could be like without a strong democratic government and sufficient regulations and social safety nets. A weak government here could very quickly lead to a takeover of commerce by organized crime in many cities. Perhaps we'd see a return of the "Robber Barons" from the Gilded Age. Concentrated wealth, and widespread poverty.

And, sorry, I don't buy the "boiling frog" or the "slippery slope" talk I hear all the time, either. That always seems to be aimed at making people fear something. People don't think clearly when they are afraid. I try not to fall into that mindset.

CD (a for the most part, relatively-happy white man)

[Jester]

Heard that in concert, Niagra Falls, New Years Eve 2006-7. Always wondered what thier point was!! Where the heck is Lou Graham now??

I'm more the dirty white boy.....

Hey, baby, if youre feelin down
I know whats good for you all day
Are you worried what your friends see
Will it ruin your reputation lovin me

cause Im a dirty white boy
Yeah a dirty white boy
A dirty white boy

Dont drive no big black car
Dont like no hollywood movie star
You want me to be true to you
You dont give a damn what I do to you

Im just a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, dirty white boy
Dirty white boy

Well, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, yeah, dirty white boy
A dirty white boy

Ive been in trouble since I dont know when
Im in trouble now and I now somehow Ill find trouble again
Im a loner, but Im never alone
Every night I get one step closer to the danger zone

cause Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, yeah, dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy

Cmon, cmon boy
Dirty white boy, white boy
Dirty white boy, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy

Hey, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, yeah, Im a dirty white boy
Dirty white boy, dirty white boy, yeah


Mark

[satch]

Lou Graham died in a helicopter crash some time ago

[Jester]

Lou Graham died in a helicopter crash some time ago

Which Bush was responsible for his demise??

JOKING!!! Just JOKING!!!

[MSG Hall]

Well I fit pretty much right into who he was describing. Although I found his characterizations of other races a bit harsh.

He is right however that I would 100% vote against Clinton. And it’s not because she is a woman. It’s because I have watched her listened to her, I have even met and spoke with her on Fort Drum. And the bottom line is: I do not believe I can trust her. Not to tell the truth, not to do what is right, not to lead the country.

Now Obama, I can’t vote for him simply because he does not trust me. He has stated that Americans and America should not have guns. Now his site does have a blurb it did not used to stating that he supports hunters and target shooters… that is not what the second amendment is about. So it comes down to… he can’t trust ME with a gun to defend my family, how can I trust him with an Army to defend my Country?

McCain is a good compromise I think. He is a bit farther left than I am, but that’s what we all need someone closer to the middle, someone who can see and talk to both sides.

Of course this is just one mans opinion… and I really ain’t all that angry, just mildly irritated is all…

[grant whipp]

So, Bruce!

Is Ft. Drum your home base (sorry, don't remember what the military term is)? I have a son-in-law stationed there ... he's a Sergeant, but don't know what grade ... has something to do with the motorpool, taking care of the HUM-Vs. Came home from Afganistan end of June last year after 15 months out ... looks like he's headed for Irag in November. You guys rock! Our thoughts & prayers are with you all! Thank You! for your service!
If you run into a Paul Williamson, smack him up the back of his head for me, and tell him to keep his schtick together ... ...! Y'All keep yer heads down and come home safe ... ...

CHEERS!

Grant

[Miriam C.]

A friendly reminder that the eyes are watching. Aunti in this case. Please be mindful of intentionally antagonizing the thread which has been real civil so far.

This is aimed at a pulled post and only that poster.