Where does it end?

[Jester]

My point of this post, before it gets lost or I forget it, is to see if I'm too stubborn OR if there are others out there who share in my frustration. I hope I have some company. Here goes..

Stopped at the local gas station today to buy my weekly $100 in Off Road Diesel fuel to heat my home. That equates to about 30 gallons. I have my approved containers on the hitch mounted rack on the rear of my Blazer. (gasoline engine BTW). I fill my containers and go into the store to give blood, er, ahhh, PAY for the fuel. I have done this weekly since January, same store, same day and about the same time. As usual the employee (doing thier job) has prepared a form that I will need to sign to purchase the fuel. For those of you not familiar.....if you buy Off Road Diesel it cannot be legally used in ON ROAD vehicles. The fuel contains dye that is readily seen when checked and denotes that the fuel is tax exempt from road taxes etc. It can only be used for off road vehicles, farming, mining and heating oil. My reason is of course Heating Oil.
Now, in the past (3 years or so) the only thing I have to do with this form is sign my name at the bottom swearing that I am using it for the purpose I have stated above on the form. Here is where tonight's trip goes bad.
Tonight the clerk tells me that I must give my name , address and SSN# to make the purchase. My question of "why?" is answered with "Somebody has been getting off road fuel taking it home and using it in thier car." They go on to say that that is illegal and if they get caught they will get a big fine. They also add that the station could be fined also.
Of course I am polite to the employee who is "only doing thier job" and realize that sheer stupidity and utter paranoia on the part of the station management is not the fault of the employee so I promplty make up a name and address and refuse to list a SSN# as I complete the form. The employee of course looks at my name of "Bill Smith" and reads the name on the credit card and notices that they are not the same. They then make the correct tactical decision that it is not that big of deal and they would like to get me out of thier store ASAP so they complete the sale of $125 in off road diesel and gasolinewithout further question or comment.
Is it just me or is it time that people starting using common sense when dealing in business? You can argue liability and law all day long but if common sense is applied to this situation it is much simpler.
Let's apply this to a sporting goods store that sells ammunition for a .22 rifle. I use that particular weapon due to the fact it is not commonly used for homicide, robbery and other illegal activities. Now, I go to buy some ammo and the clerk says," I'm sorry, I cannot sell you this ammo because you may use it to kill an animal out of season and that would be illegal and you could be fined. Also, should you get caught I could be fined as well. Come back when squirrel season starts, my liability will be less at that time and I'll happily sell you the shells."
Now let's look at this particular fuel sale. Dispensed into approved containers, form signed swearing that it will be used for heating oil and purchaser leaves the location without putting it into a vehicle thus not breaking any known law on the premises and no witness are available to claim that any law has been broken.
Common sense shows that the idea of liability in this situation is ludicrous. I know that there are situations (McDonald's hot coffee suit) that warrants being cautious in business but where do we draw the line? Where as a free society do we just say "No, this is ridiculous."
I lean decisively conservative in my views of our culture and politics. But I think things like this do not require a lable like conservative or liberal views. It's just common sense.
After 22 years of being a law enforcement officer and investigating everyting from car accidents and homicides to arguing neighbors and missing pets I cannot see the criminalor civil liability in this situation nor can I see anyway to justify asking for a persons SSN# to buy heating oil.
I suppose the water company will now require an affidavit from me swearing not to use the water to fill my pool in the event some unfortunate teenager sneaks in at night and drowns in it!!
Feel free to let me know what ya think. I enjoy spirited conversation and debate!

Does anyone know the number for the "Fuel police"? I have some people I'd like to turn in!!

[mary and bob]

it will never end, common sense is a rare commodity these days. I'm surprised you didn't get more hassle about the name difference, but some people just have to go thru the motions like they're told to for their job, like "fill this out and give me this info". when we resist or fudge it, at least they are smart enough to give up, but they did their job by trying. I get this with our answering service for breakdowns at work, they have a set of questions and procedure they must follow, I give simple answers that will satisfy them and not cause more questions, "playing the game" as such. Do we dare ask why you don't have fuel delivered to your house?

[toypusher]

Jester,

I can see and agree with you for the most part. Seems that if you are not breaking any laws during the purchase that the seller has no cupablility. If some other customer has broken the law with the fuel purchased there, then it is the problem of the law to find and procesecute the guilty!! Makes me think of all the stores wanting your home phone to complete a sale. They certainly do not need my phone # to sell me something (or my zip code either)!!!

Do we dare ask why you don't have fuel delivered to your house?

I was wonder the same thing??

[mary and bob]

as to stores asking for phone # and zip code: when Tractor Supply first opened here, they asked for that info, when I questioned why the clerk said it was to see where customers were coming from to that store. I will give out zip code but not phone as they can gather other info from the phone #. some places use your phone number to identify you or your account with them. having worked for a fuel company, I know that there is usually a minimum amount you must have delivered, and at todays prices that can be out of reach for some of us. I used to call for a delivery when needed, but if the tank got low it caused a big bill all at once. now I am on a budget plan where I pay a monthly payment based on estimated yearly use. a couple years ago I paid too much, so rather than roll it over to next year at higher cost per gallon, I took the fuel, as I had some barrels and an extra tank I had acquired. also I was thinking there was going to be another fuel shortage coming, been thru that twice. finally, don't be mad at the store clerks, they just have to do what they're told [don't shoot the messenger] Bob

[bobhenry]

I say have the heating oil delivered then get a diesel vehicle and pump out your road tax free fillups that will learn em durn em !

[bobhenry]

as to stores asking for phone # and zip code: when Tractor Supply first opened here, they asked for that info, when I questioned why the clerk said it was to see where customers were coming from to that store. I will give out zip code but not phone as they can gather other info from the phone #. Bob

Reverse phone number lookups are a scarey tool. If I find a real good buy in the classifieds I just type in the phone number generate a map and show up at the front door. If you get the classifieds on line the paper may not have even hit the streets yet. Some folks are truely scared of this technology ( I'm one of them).
It is getting to the point we will all have a number tatooed on our forhead in order to purchase the necessities of life. I am just glad I was born when I was and will be gone before it goes totally to hell ( I hope). All I can do is apologize to my kids .

[mary and bob]

just exactly how do you do that phone number lookup? a lot of times I want to know where something is before I call. agree with you on what the kids and grandkids have coming at them, but they may not know the difference, having grown up with it. having been born in '46 myself, I know a different type of life and technology that I would rather go back to, well some of it anyway. Bob

[Sonetpro]

I say have the heating oil delivered then get a diesel vehicle and pump out your road tax free fillups that will learn em durn em !

Better think twice about that. A freind of mine got caught using red in his pickup. First you get a hefty Fed fine and then the state gets thiers too. Then he had to face the crimminal charges and lawers fees- fines that went with that.
And when he thought it was over the IRS came after him for the taxes and penalty's.

[Jester]

it will never end, common sense is a rare commodity these days. I'm surprised you didn't get more hassle about the name difference, but some people just have to go thru the motions like they're told to for their job, like "fill this out and give me this info". when we resist or fudge it, at least they are smart enough to give up, but they did their job by trying. I get this with our answering service for breakdowns at work, they have a set of questions and procedure they must follow, I give simple answers that will satisfy them and not cause more questions, "playing the game" as such. Do we dare ask why you don't have fuel delivered to your house?

Must purchase minimum of 150 gallons at a time. Money tight right now so can't get ahead. I got filled up in fall but usually get it again in Jan.. Not a good year!

[Jester]

I say have the heating oil delivered then get a diesel vehicle and pump out your road tax free fillups that will learn em durn em !

Better think twice about that. A freind of mine got caught using red in his pickup. First you get a hefty Fed fine and then the state gets thiers too. Then he had to face the crimminal charges and lawers fees- fines that went with that.
And when he thought it was over the IRS came after him for the taxes and penalty's.

Here in the Communist State of Pennsylvania I doubt that would ever happen due to vehicle registration requirements. I know literally hundreds of police officers and I would bet less than 5% would know what too look for if they were to look and of those only the DOT inspection officers actually carry the equip. to check. Our police departments are structure very differently here. We rely solely on State and Local departments with only about 3 county police departments in the state. The Sherriff's are almost exclusively civil authority. There are a few exceptions but they are primarily in the drug enforcement area.
If you were pumping red into a car and using it you would have a better chance at hitting the lottery rather than being caught. A "friend" of mine has almost exclusively used Red for over 20 years in his personal pick up. Never questioned, caught etc. and he drives every day to work and abroad!
BTW: I do NOT own any diesel vehicles. (Just in case the fuel police are listening)

[Jester]

as to stores asking for phone # and zip code: when Tractor Supply first opened here, they asked for that info, when I questioned why the clerk said it was to see where customers were coming from to that store. I will give out zip code but not phone as they can gather other info from the phone #. some places use your phone number to identify you or your account with them. having worked for a fuel company, I know that there is usually a minimum amount you must have delivered, and at todays prices that can be out of reach for some of us. I used to call for a delivery when needed, but if the tank got low it caused a big bill all at once. now I am on a budget plan where I pay a monthly payment based on estimated yearly use. a couple years ago I paid too much, so rather than roll it over to next year at higher cost per gallon, I took the fuel, as I had some barrels and an extra tank I had acquired. also I was thinking there was going to be another fuel shortage coming, been thru that twice. finally, don't be mad at the store clerks, they just have to do what they're told [don't shoot the messenger] Bob

Never shoot the messenger! I have been a target for that behavior for over half my life due to my occupation. I have always been very cognizant that I do not do that.....unless........the messenger decides to change hats and become the enforcer, belittler, educator etc. then it becomes a tactical error on thier part and the shootin' begins!!

[bobhenry]

just exactly how do you do that phone number lookup? a lot of times I want to know where something is before I call. agree with you on what the kids and grandkids have coming at them, but they may not know the difference, having grown up with it. having been born in '46 myself, I know a different type of life and technology that I would rather go back to, well some of it anyway. Bob

ANYWHO.COM click on reverse lookup and type in the full phone # with area code .

[Nitetimes]

just exactly how do you do that phone number lookup? a lot of times I want to know where something is before I call. agree with you on what the kids and grandkids have coming at them, but they may not know the difference, having grown up with it. having been born in '46 myself, I know a different type of life and technology that I would rather go back to, well some of it anyway. Bob

ANYWHO.COM click on reverse lookup and type in the full phone # with area code .

Or just type the number into your Google search bar.

[Gage]

I would just like to know where we failed. It's the kids and grand kids that are creating these new way. It's their ideas on what they want the future to be and look like. Think about it.