Fridge Choice

[oside trailer]

Just curious if anyone had thoughts on choice of refrigerators for my trailer:

A 3-way with propane etc seems like overkill and is pretty pricey too -- the same came be said for AC/DC versions as well. I've seen some pure 12v versions (Coleman) that are more affordable, but I'm not so sure what the performance will be like. Finally, I was at the appliance store and noticed that a regular 2.2 cu ft AC fridge (like kids have in dorm rooms) only pulls .9 Amps???

Naturally, a fridge runs around the clock so even a small pull adds up.

What's my best bet for $$, temperature, and lifespan?

[brian_bp]

This is a large and often-debated subject, so I'll just note a couple of points which were specifically mentioned:

- "12V" electric-only refrigeration comes in two very different designs: "solid state" or "thermoelectric" coolers which are not very efficient or effective; and compressor-driven designs (like a home refrigerator, but designed to run on 12VDC) which are expensive but both efficient and effective

- Home-style refrigerators (in RV size, they're often called "bar fridges" or suggested for dorm rooms) are efficient compressor-type units; they're realy cheap, but not as efficient as the 12VDC ones intended for mobile use. Lots of people use these in travel trailers, but not so often for long periods from battery power.

- I found that a thermoelectric 12VDC cooler needs to run continuously even in quite cool surrounding conditions. Others have reported that the compressor-type units which take almost as much power (when running) only need to run a small fraction of the time, so they use much less energy in total.

[Alphacarina]

Finally, I was at the appliance store and noticed that a regular 2.2 cu ft AC fridge (like kids have in dorm rooms) only pulls .9 Amps???

Naturally, a fridge runs around the clock so even a small pull adds up.

Yes, and realize that .9 amps on 120 volts is about 1/10th what it will draw off your battery of you're running it off an inverter - It will use about 10 amps at 12 volts DC and your battery won't put up with that for very long

The best mobile fridges are the Engels, hands down - Pricey (about $600) but they will keep ice cream frozen and use less than 2.5 amps running on 12 volts doing it

Don

[Lou Park]

The best mobile fridges are the Engels, hands down - Pricey (about $600) but they will keep ice cream frozen and use less than 2.5 amps running on 12 volts doing it

How much ice cream can $600 buy?
Lou

[oside trailer]

Ok -- after careful consideration, the Engels seems like a worthwhile investment... but the foot print is all wrong. i need something that stands tall/ wide vs. long/deep.

the counters in my trailer are only 15" deep. these things seem only to sit on the floor like an ice chest.

what are my options for upright refrigeration?

[Steve F]

Ok -- after careful consideration, the Engels seems like a worthwhile investment... but the foot print is all wrong. i need something that stands tall/ wide vs. long/deep.

the counters in my trailer are only 15" deep. these things seem only to sit on the floor like an ice chest.

what are my options for upright refrigeration?

I have a Waeco CF50, like an Engel but lighter and cheaper. They do upright ones as well. Check out the CR range eg the CR50

http://www.waeco.com.au/products.asp?id=338&catId=&subCatId=&subCatId2=#

Cheers
Steve

[Alphacarina]

Ok -- after careful consideration, the Engels seems like a worthwhile investment... but the foot print is all wrong. i need something that stands tall/ wide vs. long/deep.

You won't find many tall 12 volt refrigeration devices

One thing most of them all have in common is that they are 'top loaders' and they do that for a VERY good reason. When you open the front door of a conventional refrigerator, all the stored cold inside falls out on the floor so when you close the door, the refrigeration system has to start from scratch cooling a new box full of warm air . . . . and most folks with 12 volt refrigeration are sensitive to how much energy it consumes. Front loaders can use twice as much energy as a top loader if the box is frequently accessed - Since cold is heavier than hot, the cold stays contained within the box when you open a top loader . . . . just like the refrigerated sections at your supermarket

The usual 'solution' is to mount the Engel on a slider and when you need to open it, you slide it out from under it's stored location to where you can access the top - Engel sells a slider mechanism, but you could also easily design and build your own

Don

[Alphacarina]

I have a Waeco CF50, like an Engel but lighter and cheaper. They do upright ones as well. Check out the CR range eg the CR50

The Waeco isn't much like an Engel

Your Waeco uses a Danfoss BD35 comporessor which is an older technology - We used BD35 compressors for 20 years or so on sailboats

The Engel compressor is completely different, with only one moving part and it uses about half the electrical energy that any Danfoss unit will

Don

[oside trailer]

yes -- i figured there was a good reason for the top-loader... i've been using dry ice wrapped in newspaper for years and keeping the cooler lid closed has always been the mantra for preserving the cold (although not too tightly sealed or kaboom!).

but now the local store has stopped carrying dry ice and it's not as convenient to pack-up before we go camping. we use the camper almost exclusively in the desert (So Cal & Baja) so keeping things cool is a priority. heck... half the reason i went to the trouble of wiring the camper was for the benefit of a fridge. but space is a really at a premium.

the slider idea is probably the best route to go, however, unlike most teardrops here, my camper doubles as a toy-hauler for motorcycles so the rear access door is a ramp -- not a kitchen. this is forcing me to build cabinet/counters along the inside (over one of the wheel wells) where vertical space in plentiful but horizontal space is limited...

looks like it's back to the drawing board to design around that Engel.

[Steve F]

I have a Waeco CF50, like an Engel but lighter and cheaper. They do upright ones as well. Check out the CR range eg the CR50

The Waeco isn't much like an Engel

Your Waeco uses a Danfoss BD35 comporessor which is an older technology - We used BD35 compressors for 20 years or so on sailboats

The Engel compressor is completely different, with only one moving part and it uses about half the electrical energy that any Danfoss unit will

Don

And costs more

Here in Australia we have many many brands to choose from and the Engel and Waeco are probably the most popular two. In real world situations I don't see the Engels running for twice as long as the Waeco (Almost every 4WDer here that tours has a fridge of some sort). In fact on a recent week away on Fraser Island a mate ended up leaving a day early as the Engel would not stay cold overnight, my Waeco on a battery half the size had no problem.

Anyway, it's another option and has proven to be a reliable fridge (I've had mine for 5 years now)

Cheers
Steve

[eamarquardt]

When considering anything 12V electric there are three considerations:

1) How many amp hours will be consumed each day
2) How much battery capacity will be required to meet the load (given that you can get about half of the rated capacity out of the battery)
3) How am I going to get that juice back into the battery each day.

I had a sailboat for 10 years and spent a lot of time out at the Channel Islands. We had used flouresent lights, TV/VCR, and a solenoid valve as a safety measure for the propane in the galley. Never put a dent in the 100 amp/hour battery I used (I actually had three, one in service and two back ups for starting the engine). We ran the engine about 1/2 a day to get hot water (a water heater heated by the "fresh water" cooling system for the engine) and to charge the batteries.

For the tear I plan on building (will do frame next week), I have purchased a three way Norcold. Propane use, as I understand it it, is minimal, no moving parts (but the thingy jiggy's do wear (corrode) out eventually but can be repaced) but not that cheaply.

I really missed refrigeration on the boat as running out of ice was an issue after about 5 days or so out at the islands.

I understand that propane reefers do have limits and in real hot weather don't work that well. I however, don't function real well in real hot weather, so if the fridge won't work, I probably wont be there long.

Just my thoughts.

Cheers,

Gus

[Alphacarina]

I had a sailboat for 10 years and spent a lot of time out at the Channel Islands. We had used flouresent lights, TV/VCR, and a solenoid valve as a safety measure for the propane in the galley. Never put a dent in the 100 amp/hour battery I used (I actually had three, one in service and two back ups for starting the engine). We ran the engine about 1/2 a day to get hot water (a water heater heated by the "fresh water" cooling system for the engine) and to charge the batteries.

I really missed refrigeration on the boat as running out of ice was an issue after about 5 days or so out at the islands.

I had electrical refrigeration on my 35 foot sailboat using a Danfoss BD35 compressor and a very well insulated 5 cubic foot box - I even made my own ice cubes!

With a set of 4 L-16 deep cycle batteries and a pair of 100 watt solar panels on top of the bimini, I could anchoir for up to 10 days at a time without running the engine and that included lots of TV watching, and when the TV wasn't on we usually had the stereo going - I also used a microwave running off my 1KW inverter on a near daily basis

DC refrigeration is a careful balance - You can either 1.) Use as little power as possible (something like the Engel fridge and open it as infrequently as possible) or 2.) Carry a BIG battery bank, or 3.) Find some way to 'make' electricity - A genset, a wind generator, a few solar panels or run the tow vehicle engine on a regular basis. Usually, the 'solution' is some workable combination of all 3 of the above - An efficient unit, a pair of larger batteries and some way to charge them when they get low. A medium sized solar panel which will fit the roof of your tear is a really good idea and can pay for itself over time especially if you're running some sort of gasoline engine to make up the difference

Don

[eamarquardt]

Alphacarina wrote: Carry a BIG battery bank.

Yup, we agree. A big battery bank carried low in a sailboat is not an issue. In a small trailer I think the minuses would outweigh the pluses of doing so.

Cheers,

Gus

[oside trailer]

at this point i'm using two 6 volt batteries (interstate u2200 225A hrs) to power the DC in the trailer, with a 700W inverter (1800w peak) to power the AC devices (laptop computer mostly, but also a car stereo w/ DVD player and a 12V monitor) and some basic interior/exterior lighting. the only major draw expected on the system for any length of time will be the fridge. mind you, i'm not making ice in the desert -- just want to keep the beers cold.

there's a waeco CF-25 for $199 at camping world. that's only about $50 more than i was expecting to spend. it's small, but will keep a case of cans inside (or a bunch of food if you are so inclined).

anyone have experience with this model???

[Trackstriper]

OK. Semi-stupid question. I've thought about a small AC fridge (was looking at a spiffy model last week) powered up with an inverter. I might often have shore power. I don't think I'd be able to justify the $$$ for one of the DC models for a small trailer. I can see the point of DC fridges if you are on a sailboat at sea or in the desert for a week without access to ice. Short of that I still come back to ice as the simplest, most foolproof way to go if I can run to the convenience store to pick up a bag. No?

I know a cooler can get things wet, and that keeping the cold water in the cooler helps the ice last, but if replenishing the ice is no biggie, how 'bout just letting the cooler drain. I really don't have much experience at camping or any with small trailers so I could use your input.

J.B.