GAS...in your area again!!!

[mikeschn]

Conserving in one area lets you use that money on more important stuff, like teardrops and camping!

And hey, as long as you keep the economy going somehow... and don't pay any attention to that man behind the curtain talking about the CPI.

Mike...

P.S. Did you ever check out www.gaspricewatch.com ?

I know that conserving is unpatriotic,since we have a right to consume (might not be in the constitution, but who cares), but I'll let you in on a secret... conserving can leave more money in your wallet. Shhhhh, don't tell anyone I said that.

[Dean in Eureka, CA]

Filled up this morning before heading to work.
$3.62 Cheapest place in town.

[angib]

I thought of this thread when I read an article today on the real price of oil - that is, adjusted for inflation.

What's interesting is that it's only in the last few months that the price has exceeded the level in the early 80s during the Iraq-Iran war.



The graph is from an oil depletion website that many of you might find politically unacceptable, though as the article it comes from is by "former Director of the U.S. Department of Commerce’s economic statistics office, STAT-USA", I think the numbers are probably trustworthy.

Andrew

[caseydog]

I thought of this thread when I read an article today on the real price of oil - that is, adjusted for inflation.

What's interesting is that it's only in the last few months that the price has exceeded the level in the early 80s during the Iraq-Iran war.

The fact that oil prices have just now passed peak (adjusted for inflation) has been getting news coverage here, too. It is interesting, but not very comforting.

It is hard to predict peak oil, but a lot more authorities are starting to take it seriously, including major oil companies, who have resisted such concerns in the past.

When I see companies like BP, Exxon-Mobil and Royal Dutch-Shell investing in expensive exploration like tar sands, I have to wonder what they know. Oil companies don't like to invest in anything unless they are SURE they can make a profit from it. If oil prices were to drop, investing in tar sands development would be money wasted, as they are not competitive with low-cost oil production in the Middle East. For BP, EM and Shell to dump money into high-cost-per-barrel resources, they would have to be pretty sure that oil prices are going to stay high enough for them to make money.

CD

[Dixie Flyer]

Well....(no pun intended) my brother, my mom & I have 160 acres in NW Oklahoma (N. of Clinton) that we've always believed has oil. At least, that's what my grandmother use to say. She said oil's there it's just deep.

Reckon the oil companies are going to have to start speculating a bit. If so, they can start on our 160 acres.........

Gas today...$3.17......

[Miriam C.]

$2.94 again. If I add that right they are making a loss here. I am thinking someone was caught gouging and is being limited by an agreement.

[pete.wilson]

Hey

Speculation is what has got us in this predictament in the first place. Maybe a depression is what this country needs in order to get control back in the hands of the people instead of special interests. We have oil in Alaska and Texas, natural gas in WY. and a bunch of land that can be used for agricultural fuels but none are being used. We could use wind power here in the mdiwest but don't? All I know is in 2002 I drove a Suburban 4X4 from NC to MT and paid $1.25 in VA and it was a $1.60 in MT and I thought how crazy that was, I spent $2300 on that trip as whole. I would have to budget about $4000 now for two weeks, I can't do it! Now I pay $3.09 and they are talking around $4.00gal by summer. Gas has gone up more in the last 5 years that the prior 30+ years, thats a problem. Did people really want trucks, SUV's big cars...of course they did. But, now we are forced to buy cookie cutter, crappy little roller skates that are built like junk (tin metal/plastic), have no power to tow (wow, I have 75HP, 100ft lbs torque), lucky to fit four people much less carry luggage for a trip. So much for road trips, Sunday afternoon drives, freedom of the open road. I guess I will have to stay home and watch the grass grow..........$15 to fill the lawn mower!

[sonar37]

In my own opinion I feel that we need to get growing algae as a biofuel One acre of corn will not produce very much fuel annually but a one acre area of algae can produce 100.000 gallons of biofuel annually. Algae eats Co2 and other water contaminants and can double every 24 hours. Certain strains of algae carry over 50% vegetable oil You don't have to wreck the ground with fertilizers to grow it all you need it sunlight in fact they say if we were to use 1/10 of New Mexico for growing algae in controlled facility s we would become energy independent very quickly!!!!! and create thousands of jobs. Also algae is carbon neutral so why not use algae? Your still burning oil when you use it and you can make anything with it that you make with oil. Makes sense to me. Just my opinion

Rob

[sonar37]

By the way Check out this video about algae Algae As Fuel

I say get excited about algae

Rob

[angib]

Oil companies don't like to invest in anything unless they are SURE they can make a profit from it.

I've worked several times in oil exploitation projects and each time I've been amazed (yeah, I know you'd think I would hjave learned the first time) at what a short term view oil companies take. If a project is profitable this year, they will go ahead with it, even if last year it wasn't profitable.

It really looks like the oil majors think that even they can't predict the future price of oil, so they might as well just use today's price, whatever that is. There is an argument in favour of this attitude - if you could reliably predict the price of oil, you wouldn't waste your time producing oil, you would just trade oil futures and make more money.

Rob, I agree algae is the one really interesting biofuel - indeed it's the only biofuel that looks like it produces more energy than it took to grow it - all the ones like biodiesel from corn use nearly a gallon of real oil in fuels and fertilisers to 'grow' a gallon of biodiesel - take away the politics and the subsidies and it'd stop at once.

But even algae isn't perfect as currently it takes a lot of inputs - I hope a self-sustaining system will be found, but I don't think it has been yet.

Andrew

[sonar37]

But even algae isn't perfect as currently it takes a lot of inputs - I hope a self-sustaining system will be found, but I don't think it has been yet.

I agree with you Andrew I just feel that since we have a hydrocarbon based auto transportation system in place already bio-fuels are the logical next step. I think electric and hydrogen will be the future but the infrastructure doesn't exist yet. at least not for hydrogen.

[angib]

I think electric and hydrogen will be the future

I think hydrogen is what the manufacturers would like to be the future - exactly the same vehicle as now, plus a (expensive?) hydrogen storage tank. But hydrogen is just a battery that's as quick to recharge as a gas tank - you still need to generate the electricity, which means extra generating stations, and what will drive them? If it's energy independence you're after, won't they have to be coal-burning? Does the US have enough domestic coal to do that? Of course this assumes that the huge increase in carbon emissions (coal-to-electricity-to-hydrogen-to-mechanical is at least three times as bad as oil-to-mechancial) is acceptable. Dang nabbit, energy issues are never simple!

Andrew

[sonar37]

There a many ways to obtain Hydrogen and a few ways that you can use it. Solar Generation using electrolysis is one way Wind Generation using electrolysis is another. Gasification and Biomass are still other ways of producing and using it. I think by burning it on demand we can use it in our vehicles and rid ourselves of storing it in high pressure tanks for use with fuel cells that create electricity. Getting the automobiles generator to create enough amperage to make enough Hydrogen to burn on demand is the trick but you will still need fuel to start the vehicle that creates the generation.

Again just my fragile eggshell mind wanting away from big oil

[bobhenry]

There a many ways to obtain Hydrogen and a few ways that you can use it. Solar Generation using electrolysis is one way Wind Generation using electrolysis is another. Gasification and Biomass are still other ways of producing and using it. I think by burning it on demand we can use it in our vehicles and rid ourselves of storing it in high pressure tanks for use with fuel cells that create electricity. Getting the automobiles generator to create enough amperage to make enough Hydrogen to burn on demand is the trick but you will still need fuel to start the vehicle that creates the generation.

Again just my fragile eggshell mind wanting away from big oil

1-5 amps at 12 volts thru a pulse wave generator is all that is required here is the DIY version of an on demand hydrogen generator system.

http://www.spiritofmaat.com/archive/feb2/carplans_doc.htm

This all but free energy is why Stan Myers died a very untimely death.
Don't know Stan google him up if you want to get good and

[bobhenry]

Here is Stan !

http://waterpoweredcar.com/stanmeyer.html