X prize

[Claw]

There has been a lot of discussion and concern about the price of fuel. The X Prize Foundation and Progressive Insurance have teamed to offer a $10M prize for a production capable 100+mpg vehicle.
Profit is a great motivator.
The comment by XPrize director about the Model A getting 25mpg and the belief that today we should be at 100+mpg made the goal seem very realistic.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qCeQPykPaLU
http://www.xprize.org/

We all know Rob48's Cabin Car can be towed by a Model A Roadster so maybe these new X Prize possiblities will extend the range of our much lighter Tear Drops.

[Alphacarina]

The comment by XPrize director about the Model A getting 25mpg and the belief that today we should be at 100+mpg made the goal seem very realistic.

We should be, but our political process is dominated by oil money, so it's not in their best interests - To heck with what the country needs. Exxon has been dragging their feet, appealing a decision from 1990 on damages they owe the State of Alaska. It's currently before the Supreme Court. Even if all of their appeals are denied now, the money they will eventually hand over will be less than the accrued interest on the judgement whey should have been forced to pay nearly 20 years ago

Iceland on the other hand has a nearly completed hydrogen based fuel supply . . . . something we could also have by now if it wasn't for the oil money lining the pockets of our politicians. We can dream about 100 MPG cars or electric cars or anything else we like, but so long as big oil is running this country, that's all they are - Dreams

I especially liked the Dubya quote from the 2000 campaign trail where he told everyone we 'need to elect an oilman president so he can go jawbone with the Saudis to get them to lower the price of oil'

Crude was selling for under $30 per barrel at the time - When it went over $100 a barrel, he made his very first trip over there to 'jawbone' with them . . . . we'll see how much good he did - Maybe it will be back under $30 next week?

Yeah, riiiight!

Don

[caseydog]

Profit is a great motivator.

I agree. I have said for a long time that the first auto company to come up with a 30MPG+ SUV-crossover would not be able to build them fast enough.

However, American Corporations think in terms of quarterly profits, not long term strategies. The first 30MPG SUV-crossover will no doubt come from European or Japanese companies. The Europeans probably have the product ready to roll, but the weak dollar makes it financially pointless to send here.

Profit motivates entrepreneurs to take risks and invest in the future, but not big corporations. Corporations are run by guys who make millions when the company succeeds -- and make millions when the company fails.

That's why the free-market is unlikely to solve this problem any time soon. The people running it have no sense of urgency, since they will be rich no matter what. Do you think GM, or it's CEO cares about $10-million dollars? That's about 25-percent of the CEOs annual pay package, even if GM loses money.

Big corporations have messed up the free-market system. That's why I chuckle when people tell me that "the market" can fix any problem. If you are getting paid millions of dollars per year to basically fail, then why bother trying to succeed -- hey, failure upon failure led Dubya to millions of dollars and the Oval Office. He was a C-student who failed his way to wealth and power.

The free-market is broken, and won't fix anything until it is fixed, which won't happen, IMO, until something really bad happens, like the last time it was broken -- the great depression.

[Gary and Cheri]

Is it the free market that is messed up or is it our sensibiities?

Yes I will agree with anyone who would like to say that manufacturers try to steer us to products we don't want or need but which they currently make. We should be able to say no to large fuelish vehicles, but we don't for many reasons. In a sensible car buying public I can not see a company like Hummer existing, but they are here and some people certainly want them.

I remember the last gas crisis. Wasn't that when Winnebago almost went under? That crisis went away and look at the size of the RV buses that are available today. Makes those Winnebagos look small.

I heard someone suggest today that diesels will save the day, but then someone else pointed out that we just don't have the infrastructure in place to make and serve diesel fuel in the quantities that would be needed. They also said that they thought that in europe diesel is subsidized by the government and that is why it's use is so big over there. I have no clue if that is true or what difference governmental subsidies would make over here.

What I read in magazines etc. they seem to indicate that many manufactures will be producing many more 50-60 mpg cars in the 2010 model year. Those cars are unfortuantely two years off.

VW was supposed to have their diesel back here by May. I have been told by a dealer that is is now exspected in September as VW is concerned about the weak dollar and how much profit it can make on each diesel sold here vs selling them elsewhere.

The silver lining though is that this is reportedly causing more people to look at teardrops for camping and recreation. It did me.

Gary

[asianflava]

I had a CRX in High School so my brother sent me this article.
57mpg? That's so 20 years ago
A big thing that hurts mileage is weight. Like Gary J mentioned, everything gets bigger and bigger. There wouldn't be a market for the CRX because it would't be seen as "Safe" so cars get bigger and bigger every year.

The last Civic we had (an 04 model) was bigger than the Accord we had in 84. I thought the Fit would be a small car it it isn't that much bigger than the 89 Civic in my garage , my Civic is longer and lower.

It's kind of funny because I was reading an article in Air & Space magazine about a guy who has been trying to get low speed jets to the market. His claim is that if you design a turbine engine for low speed it will be efficient at low speed. He claims that his single seat design could cruise at 220mph and get about 55mpg. Yet, whenever he gets close, the manufacturer changes their mind and wants the plane to do 400mph. My point is, everyone wants faster, bigger and safer with fuel economy taking a back seat to them all.

[angib]

And the increase in weight isn't just from an increase in size - the same size car today as one 20 years ago will weigh maybe 30-50% more. A lot of that difference is due to crash structure, as the 20-year old vehicle will be a death trap by modern standards. The rest of the difference is due to specification growth - that old Civic didn't have power steering, never mind power windows, air con, ABS, etc, etc.

Andrew

[tk]

One of the incongruities of the whole fuel economy debate, is the fact that the people who most need a fuel-efficient vehicle (the working poor) are those who can least afford to buy a new vehicle and are thus at the mercy of what's available on the used car lot. The cars being built are those that can be sold to the more affluent part of the buying public. Many of the more efficient and initially affordable vehicles don't last long enough to be a good used car purchase. My $.02.

Tom

[Claw]

I believe that as people realize they are spending an increasing amount a week on fuel that economy and conservation will become more focused as a solution. I applaud the X Foundation for providing an economic incentive to stimulate potential solutions. It does seem amazing in our present society that there is basically one propulsion system for everyday individual transportation.

Here is an interesting fuel source
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUmlLqkUHd0

[caseydog]

A lot of good thoughts here.

I remember the last fuel crisis, too. And, I remember the imports having a big jump on us then. I worry that it will happen again, and US car companies will suffer more loss of market share.

And, while the SUV boom did add a lot of weight to the streets, as Andrew says, even small cars have gotten heavier. Some due to safer structures, but mostly due to making small cars feel more like bigger, more luxurious cars.

BMW is bringing the 1-Series to the states. They are advertising it as the new version of the old BMW 2002. It will be interesting to see how that plays out, since the 2002 was a VERY simple car -- not at all the kind of luxury found in today's BMWs.

And, yes, our Diesel infrastructure is lacking today. Hopefully, the oild companies will respond to the demand if more diesels become available. Who knows, these days, whether they will respond to demand, or not, since they can make money no matter what they do.

CD

[tddriver]

This is the most intriguing news I've heard in a long time.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6vSxR6UKFM

[asianflava]

It is an interesting find but it is like running a steam engine by boiling water in a mircowave oven.

How much energy is required for those RF generators. Some of the equipment we had had several power supplies for the magnetrons. The one that would usually go out ran 350V and that wasn't even the high voltage power supply.

[caseydog]

It is an interesting find but it is like running a steam engine by boiling water in a mircowave oven.

How much energy is required for those RF generators. Some of the equipment we had had several power supplies for the magnetrons. The one that would usually go out ran 350V and that wasn't even the high voltage power supply.

Yeah, the TV anchorwoman did not grasp the notion that the radio frequency generator was running on electricity.

I wonder how much electricity is used to generate a fire that is big enough to run a stem generator? Unless the energy you generate with the burning the salt-water exceeds the energy used by the radio-frequency generator, you have a really cool system that does nothing productive.

Hey Andrew, have you heard of this process?

CD

[jeep_bluetj]

Sounds like somebody is trying to tell me that the second law of thermodynamics doesn't apply. Newslady is easly snowed. Newsfolks in general are easily snowed.

The first 30+ mpg SUV is going to make a ton of $$$. Every car manuf on the planet is working thier butts of to make it happen. GM's going to come pretty darn close later this year. (Ford Escape hybrid already has, but it's pretty small.)

The market IS demanding good milage cars. Toyota can sell as many priuses as they can make. At a massive markup. R&D takes alot of time. Alot alot alot of time at a big company with lots of politcs. That's why the X-prize is cool. It rewards small, innovative groups. Like Scaled Composites.

[Claw]

The X Prize is an incentive. The different ideas that come from this incentive may create an opportunity for others to expand on those ideas. I think we live in exciting times and the future holds a lot of solutions that are just in their infancy. Who in 1908 would have thought of the changes from then until now. What strange and wonderful thing that we have not yet even considered will be common place in 2108?

[caseydog]

That's why the X-prize is cool. It rewards small, innovative groups. Like Scaled Composites.

Maybe I have become too cynical, but GM or Exxon-Mobil can pay the same inventor 20 Million for the 100MPG design -- and then kill it.

But the optimist in me is certain that someday, the big corporations will be dragged -- kicking and screaming -- into a new world of possibilities.

CD