Running wires

[brian_bp]

Is there any difference in the wires between using them for 110 volt or 12 volt systems?
Lou

Difference in the wire? I can't think of any reason there would be.
Difference in the insulation? Sure, ten times the voltage means a greater insulation requirement; also, there are all sort of insulation and cover specs to suit the installation conditions, regardless of voltage.

There are lots of differences in cables to suit requirements. It seems to me that a cable which is suitable for 120V AC service in some application would be fine for 12V DC service in the same application (e.g. trailer), if the wire gauge is thick enough for the current.

[Dark Horse]

Thank you all for the feedback.

the fact that Nitetimes 33'er was all NMB surprised me. But I doubt the MFGr would use it if there was any real chance of it failing.
Now I have a use for the stuff left over from the House projects


Thanks again,

Jim

[bobhenry]

For the a/c circuits I would stay with 12 gage wire ( 14 gage would be ok for lighting). The dc could be all 14 gage except for a main feed such as from an on board battery to a fuse box where it splits loads to several circuits. This main DC feed I would use 10 gage. The wire itsself can be stranded or solid copper and there is no need for them to be different however I would identify each circuit with a number tag if different colors is cost prohibitive. This number code needs preserved in case of problems down the road (like mine) Just my opinion but the use of 2 different color of extention cord works great to color code your a/c verses dc circuits.

[cablerunners]

Hi All,

I'd like to mention that while running AC and DC, you should keep the wires and devices physically separated.

An eample would be not using the same hole or conduit for the AC and DC wires... Should they come in contact you could energize your 12V DC circuit with 120AC.

Just thought I'd throw that out while we are on the topic.



-phil

[AFoxworthy]

Can I ask why solid core wire use is prevalent here?

I've always been told if the wires going to be pulled once and never move again use solid I.E. NMB (romex brand)
if its gonna move, Cars,Boats, bikes... Stranded.
Due to the nature of stranded being able to deal with Vibration and flexing better than solid will.

Thank you,

Jim

I used Romex from the shore power to the converter and from the breakers to the 110 outlets. The walls of my tear don't flex any more than the walls of my house.

And it is easier to use stab in fixtures. All my wire is on the bulkhead/galley wall and if it gives me issues I will pull it and replace it. Truth is if you like stranded better you should use it.

I have seen more burnt up receptacles from stab-in devices than i'd like to. They are also the source of about 95% of the service calls that I go to for peoples plugs not working in their homes. If you are worried about vibration and solid wire, stab in's are defintly not a good idea. Make a hook in the wire and tighten it on the screw(hook facing clockwise on the screw). It will stay there no problem. If you use stranded wire, use forked terminations instead of wrapping the wire around the screw.

[kartvines]

For all of my 12 volt wire I took a transparent plastic tubing and used it as conduit, running each set of wired though it own tubing, for my 110 I also used a extension cord and ran it though the same type of tubing, it may have been overkill, but I know that nothing will ever get to my wires and they will never short became to do so they would have to get out of it's own tube to make contact, which I think could never happen.

I also had hoped that if I ever had to replace a wire for any reason I could pull it and replace it, but I discovered that once it it does not want to budge.

[chorizon]

I've noticed a pretty radical difference in the size of wire you guys have mentioned for the DC circuit. Everything from 12G to 18G. I'm still wondering what I'm going to use for mine. Is it best to plan for the AMP draw for the largest accessory and just use that size wire thru-out the rest of the DC circuit? A little search yielded the following max amp/wire gage:
10G:55A
12G:41A
14G:32A
16G:22A
18G:16A
I assume you wouldn't want to constantly pull max amps thru a wire all the time; what's a good "percentage"? 70% load seems to be a number the recurs pretty often with most electrical thingies I've dealt with, does that sound right?

[Miriam C.]

Chorizon, I am installing my 12v marine panel today and it has 18 gage for the leads. Now to my opinion that is just to fragile for use. I used 12 avg because I have so much of it and it really is to big and stiff. However, I have it and it was free. You can choose the size by the expected draw if you have lots of choices of wire.

Afoxworthy, I bought fairly expensive, pretty red outlets. They have screws to tighten down and hold the stabbed in wire. However if they come loose, I am pretty sure it will kill my GFCI and blow the breakers first. I hope. Oh and I do tape around the thing so the screws are covered.

[brian_bp]

... I bought fairly expensive, pretty red outlets. They have screws to tighten down and hold the stabbed in wire...

The stab-in holes appear to line up with the screw positions, which isn't surprising, but does the tip of each screw actually run down into the stab-in hole, so that it clamps the wire in there? That would make it a set-screw connection, and would be much better than the typical stab-in design.

... However if they come loose, I am pretty sure it will kill my GFCI and blow the breakers first. I hope...]

If loose wires are floating around, and the live side (line) hits ground, then I suppose the GFCI will trip (since line and neutral will not carry the same current) and even the breaker (if enough current flows).

Coming loose (if a screw loosens) might be the concern with this particular "stab-in" design, where a wire looped abound a terminal screw will stay in place.

I think the concern with more typical stab-in terminations is that they may not contact very well (they certainly don't fall out easily if properly inserted); in that case, they would just have excessive resistance, causing open-circuit faults and/or building up heat (a fire hazard). I don't see why the GFCI or breakers would trip in the case of poor contact.

[Ken A Hood]

Remember you need to consider the total run of the wire your using, not just Amperage and Wire Guage


http://www.rbeelectronics.com/wtable.htm

[Miriam C.]

There is a plate under the screw that clamps on and holds. It is not a partial stab in. They are Hubbell and wonderfully made. For those who want red, they aren't expensive per each but I had to order ten and I got a discount. Then you had to buy ten wall plates It isn't fair but no one had them.

There is no such thing as a perfect "residential" set up. You always run the risk of fire. My wiring is not in the walls because I wasn't going to do 120vac at all. However, Mr. Mike wanted air conditioning...

[brian_bp]

There is a plate under the screw that clamps on and holds. It is not a partial stab in. They are Hubbell and wonderfully made...

Thanks for the info.

I guess that would be Hubbell, presumably the HBL8200 series. It looks like they have a lot of nice stuff. I don't know why the requirement to buy specific cover plates... or is that just to match the red?

[Miriam C.]

There is a plate under the screw that clamps on and holds. It is not a partial stab in. They are Hubbell and wonderfully made...

Thanks for the info.

I guess that would be Hubbell, presumably the HBL8200 series. It looks like they have a lot of nice stuff. I don't know why the requirement to buy specific cover plates... or is that just to match the red?

They are a dark red. Not something I could find else where. Besides Mike sells them and I get a discount. Just if you buy wholesale you have a minimum. I will just put them back for the next one.

Boy it is a good thing I didn't see the snap connects. Wonder why Mike doesn't bring home a catalog.

[Juneaudave]

After following this thread, I'm pretty sure now that the SlumberMAX will burn to the ground due to my wiring job!!! Anyone ever install a sprinkler system in a Tear???

[Mary K]

After following this thread, I'm pretty sure now that the SlumberMAX will burn to the ground due to my wiring job!!! Anyone ever install a sprinkler system in a Tear???

OH GOSH!! Dont give these Nutters here anymore ideas!!!


Mk