Cubby Spar Question(s)

[IraRat]

Okay, I'm NOT bashing the plans, but help me anyway:

The side profile illustration/grid is the only place in the plans that indicates the spar positions. (The profile most of used to cut the sides.) At the edge of the hatch cut-out, the hatch hinge area, it shows FOUR spars together.

Tom sent me photos of his build where he glued 4 together and placed them on the edge of that hatch cutout. I'm thinking it should only be TWO, and the other two illustrated there represent the hatch itself.

Help.

Also, who ignored the plans and placed more spars in different positions than indicated? I know I'm going to add a "floor" spar at the front, in order to have a lip/support for the air conditioning.

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MONDAY 9AM (BOCA RATON TIME) EDIT
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(At the risk of starting yet another thread, I figured I would just add to this one and kill two birds with one stone.)

I've done all of my cuts so far with a jig saw and circular saw, no table saw. While I would really like to BUY one, and I can get a cheap Ryobi with stand for just a hundred bucks, I still can't justify it right now.

However, I have to make this one angle cut on the top piece of the upper galley frame, to match the curve of the spar.

Will I lose 2 fingers trying to cut this another way? I even thought about just sanding the hell out of that piece prior to assembling the frame, but I don't know if this is doable. After reviewing the plans yet again, I don't see anywhere else where it would be necessay for me to make any angle cuts to justify the cost of that saw.

This is one of those rare situation where I'm looking to NOT buy something if i don't have to.

[toypusher]

I have not done it yet, but believe that they are 2 for the body and 2 for the hatch. I am also going to put an extra spar at the deck in the front.

Kerry

[mikeschn]

I am just now finishing the spar drawing for the Generic Benroy. I'll have that posted later this morning...

Mike...

[IraRat]

I am just now finishing the spar drawing for the Generic Benroy. I'll have that posted later this morning...

Mike...

Cool. Every little bit of info helps. (Also see my edited post above.)

[exminnesotaboy]

Also, who ignored the plans and placed more spars in different positions than indicated?

I just used the KC plan spar locations as guides and put them where I needed them. I made sure there were ones in these specific places:
- cabin front shelf support
- cabin roof fan support
- where an 8' sheet of interior roof sheeting would end

then I just put the rest of the spars in between at somewhat equidistant spacing. I did find that putting more spars than normal made insulating a little more difficult - basically, the smaller the insulation piece, the more difficult it was to bend it around the radius and have it stick with adhesive and brads.

[Woody]

I have never seen Kuffel Creek Cubby plans before, what does it state as spar material, install position, and spacing. it seems to me that 1" x 2" pine is alittle light when using 1/4" luan material, considering the radius that needs to be bent. Even 2" x 2" pine might be light with 1/4" luan as well. The distortion in the spar will make everything somewhat narrower at the top and compound the problem with the interior skin install I would think. Unless the exterior skin is applied it might relieve some of the pressure from the inside skin. I am so glad I overbuilt this part of my trailer. Bending the radius inside was enough to drive one crazy by itself.

[bdosborn]

I doubled up poplar 1x2s on all the spars. I used oak for the hatch spar.


I also used metal braces on all the ends so I wasn't just using a screw into the end grain. Might be a bit of overkill but the spars are really strong. I read somewhere that the glue joint should be perpendicular to the skin for more stiffness.
Bruce

[IraRat]

Some great replies, guys. Thanks.

Woody, the Kuffel plans call for single 1 by 2 Douglas fir spars or similar strong wood. (Not pine.) A few spots take it double, like the cabinets, but gee gosh darn--only one in the other places. Pretty scary. And there's no visible rhyme or reason to the spacing--it's not consistent.

Plus gosh gee heck--they actually only measure 3/4 by 1 1/2 anyway, right?

I really like what you did Bruce, doubling up and using those hangers. Thanks for the idea. (You used 3/4 by 1 1/2 actual, right? So you final was 1 1/2 square?). It also seems like it's gonna be a lot easier marking and hanging those hangers in position first rather than trying to hold spars up and screwing from the outside. Did you mark and cut the inner skins AFTER the hangers were up?

So I think I'm going to go double like you, but still stick with Kuffel's spacing/number of spar crossings. For such a small TD, and since I'm doubling up, I really doubt I need any more than this.

[bdosborn]

Some great replies, guys. Thanks.

I really like what you did Bruce, doubling up and using those hangers. Thanks for the idea. (You used 3/4 by 1 1/2 actual, right? So you final was 1 1/2 square?). It also seems like it's gonna be a lot easier marking and hanging those hangers in position first rather than trying to hold spars up and screwing from the outside. Did you mark and cut the inner skins AFTER the hangers were up?

I didn't like how its shown in the KC plans, seems like it was way to complicted. So I added a header where the spars were to be mounted and skinned the entire interior.


That way I didn't have to trim the insterior skin and I could move my spars around after I installed the interior skin. It made installing the skin a breeze because I could use a flush trimming router to cut it to size along the walls. Final spar dimension was 1 1/2 square.
Bruce

[Georgeandpat]

Ira, I used 3 or 4 spars(glued together) in that hatch area. 2 might be a little weak to support the hatch. As far as your angle cuts go, you should be able to tilt your jigsaw or circular saw(probably better) blade to match the angle you need. You'll probably need to temporarily fill in the open area of your frame(if already built)with some scrap wood of the same thickness and clamp down a straight piece of wood to act as a guide. BTW, On my first woodworking project years ago, I didn't have a table saw either. I mounted my circular saw upside down on an old table and it worked fine. On second thought, I shouldn't be advocating this since there is no safety cover on the blade and I know that no body here has removed the safety covers from their table saws. George.

[IraRat]

BRILLIANT, BRUCE!!! THANKS!!!

This is going to be a PLEASURE to do as opposed to the KF plans.

I'll use a 3/4 header (which is the same as the framing for the insulation anyway and which I can even do off-trailer before attaching/raising the sides). I then raise the sides, do the rest of my wall framing/installation, then install the side cabin skins.

After THAT I can hang the hangers and install the spars. I'll just be sure to use a few good temp spars prior.

Man, this gives you a lot more leeway and margin for error! Like if I happen to be off a 16th, an 1/8th on a spar length, because I'm not 100% square, I can at least kind of "fix" it within that hanger to keep the walls straight.

GOD BLESS YOU!

But one more question:

You did the header for the entire profile? all the way from the front of the cabin to the very back of galley? That's what the picture looks like.

And thanks George on the hatch ideas. I'll play it by ear. If I use 3 spars, I'll have to of course pick up two hangers to this wider dimension, but no big deal there.

[bdosborn]

You did the header for the entire profile? all the way from the front of the cabin to the very back of galley? That's what the picture looks like.

Yup, I did the header all the way along the sides. Mostly so I'd have more wood for my hangers to screw into. You don't have to make an angle cut at the hatch if you don't want to. I just framed it in:

Probably better if you wait until the galley cabinet is in to do that way
Bruce

[IraRat]

You did the header for the entire profile? all the way from the front of the cabin to the very back of galley? That's what the picture looks like.

Yup, I did the header all the way along the sides. Mostly so I'd have more wood for my hangers to screw into. You don't have to make an angle cut at the hatch if you don't want to. I just framed it in:

Probably better if you wait until the galley cabinet is in to do that way
Bruce

What day at the office!!! And I can't even think to figure out whether I'm screwed or not.

The lower and middle initial bulkhead framings are already done. I can work around this, right? Only the TOP galley frame width would have to be adjusted to accommodate the added thickness of the header, correct?

Oy...I want my MOMMY!!!

[TomS]

I've got the profiile cut on my interior skins. But, I have not notched for the spars yet per the Kuffle Creek plans. I've been procastinating on that task.

After reading this thread and thinking it over, I too will use Bruce's method. Specifically, I'll install a 3/4" thick header, then the skin, then the spars doubled up. I'm not sure about the brackets. I think as long as drive long screws to tie the spars to the plywood sides, I should be OK.

Besides eliminating the notching of the interior skin it also provides additional glueing / nailing, surface when I mount my exterior roof skin.

It's amazing how many of these design decision, I'm making at the last minute.

[toypusher]

I framed the profile 1 3/8" smaller on the inside and will insulate and put the interior skin on before putting the walls on the trailer. Then I plan on installing the bulkheads and the interior roof skin before putting the spars in place (Like Steve Fredrick did). This will allow me to put them anywhere that I want and will make putting the interior roof skin on a fairly easy task. Also, should allow better use of glue between the roof skin and the spars. The roof skin will already be held in place by the sides and it will also help hold the sides square (if I can cut a straight line) will installing the spars. Hope that all made sense. I have not finished the framing yet, but will post some pictures when it is done. (that may be awhile, due to working on my house to get it ready to sell).

Kerry