Long (Curved) Weekender Axle Placement

[Can-O-Yeti]

I have been playing with extending the Benroy to suit my generous 6'6 frame. Thought I was just about ready to put the axle on the HF 1740# frame when I came across the profile for the Long Curved Weekender that Mike posted in March. I love it. It has a few extra inches in the body (114 9/16") yet still fits nicely on the 8 foot trailer.

Now I am experimenting with the axle placement on the Long Curved Weekender. As Mike drew it up, the axle is 37 1/2 from the end of the frame (44 from the end of the body), I calculate a tongue weight under 10% of the body weight which makes me a bit nervous. I saw another posting where the axle was 35 1/2" from the end of the frame which seems more reasonable. Here is what I am proposing

1. I am assuming the entire galley (including cooler and battery) of 250 lbs...is this reasonable?
2. I might throw some weight on the tongue like a propane tank so I put 80 lbs. What bothers me is if I remove this weight, the percent drops to 8.4% or 105 lbs...that seems like alot!

Do my figures look right for the profile that is 114 9/16" long on an 8 foot trailer that is 137" from hitch to end of frame or has this newbie overlooked something?

In looking through posts, I see that Mike seems to focus on tongue weight (in the case of the Weekender, about 100 lbs). MadJack focuses on the percent of body weight (12-13%). What should us new folks be focusing on and why?

As I vary the extra weights, the tongue weight and percent varies alot. I guess it all goes toward how you load it!

[del]

I have been playing with extending the Benroy to suit my generous 6'6 frame. Thought I was just about ready to put the axle on the HF 1740# frame when I came across the profile for the Long Curved Weekender that Mike posted in March. I love it. It has a few extra inches in the body (114 9/16") yet still fits nicely on the 8 foot trailer.

Now I am experimenting with the axle placement on the Long Curved Weekender. As Mike drew it up, the axle is 37 1/2 from the end of the frame (44 from the end of the body), I calculate a tongue weight under 10% of the body weight which makes me a bit nervous. I saw another posting where the axle was 35 1/2" from the end of the frame which seems more reasonable. Here is what I am proposing

1. I am assuming the entire galley (including cooler and battery) of 250 lbs...is this reasonable?Varies a lot with what you put in it, and I have not built my gally yet
2. I might throw some weight on the tongue like a propane tank so I put 80 lbs. What bothers me is if I remove this weight, the percent drops to 8.4% or 105 lbs...that seems like alot!Propane is a handy thing to have for cooking, and the tongue is the normal place to put it.

Do my figures look right for the profile that is 114 9/16" long on an 8 foot trailer that is 137" from hitch to end of frame or has this newbie overlooked something?Am I reading this right the body over hangs the frame (mine over hangs the frame by several feet), if you want jacks or a bumper you may want to extend the frame.

In looking through posts, I see that Mike seems to focus on tongue weight (in the case of the Weekender, about 100 lbs). MadJack focuses on the percent of body weight (12-13%). What should us new folks be focusing on and why?I am told even with larger trailers try for more than 10%, less than 15% (I think), so 100#s would be right for a trailer just under a 1000#s

As I vary the extra weights, the tongue weight and percent varies alot. I guess it all goes toward how you load it!

Yes a properly balanced trailer can be thrown off by loading wrong.
del

[Can-O-Yeti]

The profile for the long curved weekender fits on an eight foot frame, but the bulge in the front hangs out 12 1/16" and in back by 6 3/8".

Here is the profile I am working with: http://www.mikenchell.com/images/longweekenderdwg.pdf

In putting the numbers into the worksheet, I used the full body dimensions.

I am also a bit troubled by the front profile bulging out too much...ie clipping the tow vehicle on sharp corners. MadJack recommended at least 1/2 width of the tow vehicle + 3 inches from the ball to the body. With the 12 1/16" bulged on the Long Curved Weekended, I am out 5 inches too far. What are my options beside not make sharp turns? It seems that many traditional teardrops may violate this (from the pictures in albums). Is this a serious problem that can be avoided whe driving?

[madjack]

CoY...some thoughts...if you end up with too light a tongue weight it can(not will) cause the trailer to become squirrelly at hiway speeds and be susceptible to jackknifing under hard braking...a tongue weight of 8 to 12% is about right...personally I wouldn't go under but going over is not nearly as bad as long as the tow vehicle can handle it...these numbers give you a tongue weight of around 80 to 120#s given a trailer weight of 1000#s...my personal preference is to be heavier on the tongue (between 10-15%) for safeties sake......

...as far as tongue length goes, the first thing to remember is, the longer the distance from the axle to the coupler, the easier it is to backup the trailer...the second thing, is the length of tongue has very little to do with the weight balance of the trailer...this, basically is a function of axle placement...you can certainly go shorter than my recommendations and will probably not have(many) problems going forward but when backing, you will very definitely run the risk of putting your bumper into the side of the trailer or any sort of tongue box you may want to add...

...if you get it in the ballpark, then you can affect the actual balance by the way you load things...
madjack

p.s....your distance from rear of camper to center of axle, looks about right to my MK1 eyeballs, however, you may wish to extend the tongue a bit...especially if you might want to add a tongue box in the future.....MJ

[mikeschn]

Regarding the tongue length when the front extends out over the tongue, that's a valid concern.

On my Escape hatch I extended the front end too much, and ended up hitting the car body and putting a nice dent in it when I jacknifed while backing up.

I just ran out and measured. From the front of the body to the centerline of the ball is 23".

Mike...

[ARKPAT]

I have had the same problem as Mike describes with my trailer and my truck tailgate/ step bumper. I'm still have the steel and planning to extend the tongue on my trailer also as Mike describes the solution.



Pat

[angib]

In putting the numbers into the worksheet, I used the full body dimensions.

I presume you mean you measured everything from the back of the body, not the back of the frame. If so, you did right.

The one thing I would question in your numbers is the 250lb galley weight - just what the heck are you gonna put back there?. All you need to add is any 'abnormal' weight - so forget the body or the hatch or cabinets as they're already included. Things I would count as 'abnormal' are:
- a loaded cooler, which could weigh quite a bit;
- a granite countertop (!);
- a refrigerator;
- a stove big enough to have an oven;
- a water tank (10 gal is 83lb, just the water);
- enough tins of SPAM to feed an army for a week.

OK, underestimating weights is not good but I think you might have gone a little too far the other way. You can get to 250lb, but will all that fit in the galley?

I second Madjack's comment that a longer tongue doesn't alter the hitch weight much. The one thing it does do is increase the required strength of the tongue - a tongue twice as long (in front of the frame) needs to be twice as strong.

Andrew

[Can-O-Yeti]

The tongue length on the HF trailer is 137" - 96" = 41". Right now I am agonizing over lengthening the Benroy on either end by 5 inches to give it a little reclining room (pillows, ect.) or going with the long curved weekender (with adds 12" on the front and 6 in the back beyond the trailer frame). I am back to leaning towards the Benroy since I like how the galley fits into the back with the lower cabinets. This 5 inch overhang would also meet MadJacks clearance rule. If I go with the long curved weekender, the clearance to the ball from the body would be around 41" - 12" = 29".

Would it be crazy to set the entire back 7" on the entire frame? I am a bit reluctant to extend the tongue...

I am going to have to decide today which way I want to go so I can put the axle on this bad boy.

[madjack]

CoY, you can set the body back as far as you want...with appropriate and corresponding setback for the axle...keep in mind, that sooner or later, you will reach the end of the HF frame with the rear spring hanger...to my way of thinking, extending the tongue is no big deal(you only need to extend the center tube) and that way you can place the body(in profile of choice) where you actually want it.......
madjack

[mikeschn]

I spent a few minutes thinking about this situation today... and if I would have known then what I know now, I would have moved my Escape Hatch body rearward a little bit.

I have historically liked to see the frame at the rear of the trailer, but that's because my first trailer was a 4x8 benroy on a 4x8 frame.

since we are really building strong torsion boxes, we can afford to let the shell hang over the back of the trailer a foot, and eliminate the potential for wrecking your tow vehicle when jackknifeing in reverse.

That of course is just one solution that would work. Increasing the tongue would also work, especially if you are using a red trailer, with the center member coming through the 50 degree angled pieces.

And of course if your are build the custom trailer version, make the tongue as long as you need it.

If you are using a 5' wide chassis, your tougue is typically longer than that of a 4' wide chassis, so that helps too.

there's many ways to skin a cat!

Mike...

[brian_bp]

I can see carrying some propane, and putting on the tongue... but what else makes it up to 80 lbs? For a rough rule of thumb, a propane tank weighs about as much empty as the propane it carries, so a "20 lb" tank weighs 20 lb by itself, and carries another 20 lb, for a total of 40 lb. Most people wouldn't carry two of these big "barbecue" tanks on their tear, and some seem to use one smaller tank, so is the plan to carry 40 lb or more of other stuff?

If the distribution doesn't seem to be tongue-heavy enough, I strongly believe that the axle should be moved back (since that's an option at this design stage) rather than piling stuff on the tongue.

[Can-O-Yeti]

Very enlightening! I was counting the entire galley in the weight and thinking of including the cooler back there. I was also counting an utility box on the front. I was measuring from the back of the body so I wasn't completely off base

I think I am beginning to get the hang of this all. I will start with the basic trailer and any abnormal weight...then use the spreadsheet. Careful loading of the trailer should take most of my weight issues into account, especially if the cooler is in the back of the truck. Sounds like this is a typical placement.

My plan now is to go with a 5 x 9 ft Benroy. I'll overhang it 5 inches on the front (this meets Madjack clearance recommendation) and 7 inches on the back.

As an aside...I have been reading through the posts on solar systems on teardrops. Today I went to an alternative energy fair. One of the solar contractors was very interested in helping me with design specifications and putting together a realistic system. I hope to post some of his advice as I get to those issues.

Thanks for the advice...I am sure you'll continue to hear from me and of course I'll post pictures in my album.