What does STEADY test light on left turn signal mean?

[madjack]

Jim, if by connector you mean the four flat plug at the front, that is a really looooooong shot...my suspicion would be in the light fixture itself...
madjack

[kayakrguy]

Hi MJ,

I did not have the light connected to the wires. I took the light off so I could test ONLY the wiring in front of the light.

Remember, the light I am using on the left side is the one I swapped from the right--following Brewbiers sujggestion--where the light worked fine. Once I switched it to the left side, It behaved exactly the same as the first light did.

So, my testing this afternoon was just of the wiring, including the connector.
The only way I can understand the results I got is if there is something wrong with the connector--that is the ONLY place where the yellow and brown wires could possibly have contact....???

If you have another suggestion that better explains the problem I found, fire away...

Thanks,

Jim

[Dale M.]

Wow, "conditional" short in connector.... Sounds unusual....

Next thing would be to remove connector (leave enough slack to splice back on if you want) and do same test wire end to wire end....

Do away with the the molded rubber thingie and get good quality metal shell connector and put mate on tow vehicle..... I hate molded things that I can not "see" what is going on "inside"....

At very least you can splice on new flat four connector if necessary...

Dale

[Hinermad]

But, there WAS a problem with the LEFT side.

With the test wire on the running light pin, I can get BOTH the running light wire AND the left turn wire to test good. If I put the test wire on the left turn pin, I can get BOTH the left turn wire AND the running light wire to test good.

Now, I tested the right side the same way--no problem

CONCLUSION: A Bad Connector. Whaddya'all think??

Jim,

If I'm reading you right, that sounds like the left turn wire is shorted to the running light wire. That could be in the connector or in the light fixture. But if you removed the light fixture, the connector is the next likely suspect.

Dave

P.S. Good idea to remove the light when you were doing the testing. A continuity tester can't always tell the difference between a light bulb and a piece of wire. You could conceivably see what looks like a connection between (for example) the left turn and right turn wires, because the tester would see current passing from the left turn wire, through the left turn lamp, through ground, through the right turn lamp, to the right turn wire. D.

[kayakrguy]

Dale and Dave,

Thanks for your replies. I'm gonna try a question for Dave, because he is reading me right about the left turn and running wire being shorted out together. That is the ONLY thing that I could come up with and that is why I guessed ' the 4 flat connector as the problem.

But Dave's note raised a ? in my mind. To wit:

Could a short in the front running light in front of the tail light be the problem here? What I'm wondering is: if there is a short in that light could it effect the behavior of the turn wire and running wire when they reach the tail light--through the frame ground? That's not something the continuity tester would find is it?


thanks again, everyone!

Jim

[Dale M.]

Ummm........ Running light circuits test good didn't they (front included)....

Front running light should not have anything to do with brake light "wire" problem... Remember you are testing conductors now, not fixtures or grounds.

Dale

[kayakrguy]

Dale,

Thanks for your note....

Let me rephrase my question...

How do I explain why, when my test wire is on either the running wire peg or the left turn peg, I can get a 'good' circuit reading on my tester?

One answer--a problem in the 4-flat connector.

Second Answer--or really my last question which your note attempts to answer:

There is a short in the front running light. That short travels through the frame on the ground and meets the yellow turn wire farther back....???

The continuity tester would not detect that problem....it would only tell me that the circuit(s) work on either peg....

That's my reasoning/question--not sure your answer understood my earlier post. Hope this helps....

Jim

[BrwBier]

Can you post a closeup picture of the connector and the light? Some kinds of connectors I would say not a chance and others something might give me an idea.
Brwbier

[madjack]

Jim...with the light fixture removed from the equation, you still have the same problem...right...OK.

The wire (brown) for the running lights is a completely separate wire from the brake/blinker which should be yellow(left side)...(green to the right side)....for short in one(to ground) to affect the other, it would also havvta be shorted to ground as well...

Sooooooo, with no fixture in the mix, hooking the C tester to the yellow wire and ground should show an open circuit...hooking the C tester to the brown wire and ground should show an open circuit...hooking the C tester to the brown wire and the yellow wire should show and open circuit...

If a short is shown on ANY of these 3 tests AND you are sure there is no break in the wires, allowing them to short to ground(or each other), all you are left with is a bad connector.

At this point, I would remove the connector and re-run all 3 tests, just to be positive before you install a new connector....
madjack

[Dale M.]

Yah... What Madjack says.... It's what I was getting at, MJ just put it down better in words....

Dale

[signs]

FIRST thing I would do is remove ALL ground wire connections and clean and reattach them.

If your ground is not good (can check good with tester and still fail under load) your circuit will find a ground (or other path to ground) through another wire in the fixture and cause the light to act in the way you describe.

Also while I had the ground wires disconnected, I would check them for a complete circuit.

Jay

[Hinermad]

Could a short in the front running light in front of the tail light be the problem here? What I'm wondering is: if there is a short in that light could it effect the behavior of the turn wire and running wire when they reach the tail light--through the frame ground? That's not something the continuity tester would find is it?

Jim,

Here's a schematic of what the wiring on your trailer should look like:



Not shown in the schematic is your connector, but it's at the left end of each of the colored wires. Each of the colored circles (L1 - L9) is a lamp. The little symbol that looks like a TV antenna is a connection to the frame ground.

If you connect your continuity tester from the end of the brown wire to the end of the yellow wire while all the lamps are connected, you'll see a connection. Current from the tester will flow through the brown wire, through all the marker lamps (L1 through L7), into the ground. That same current will come back out of ground, through L8, through the yellow wire, back to the tester. Circuit complete, the tester lights up. If you remove L8 by disconnecting the light fixture or even just unplugging the bulb, that breaks the circuit and the tester stays dark. If, with L8 disconnected, you still get a complete circuit between brown and yellow, then you have a short.

What Madjack said about testing with no fixture in the mix is true if you remove all the fixtures. If any of your running lights are atill conencted, you'll see continuity between the brown wire and ground.

Does the yellow wire on your trailer route through the front running light fixture on the way to the back? Sometimes it's possible for a wire to get pinched under a screw and have the insulation get nicked, but that's more likely to cause a short to ground, not another wire.

Dave

[kayakrguy]

Hi Folks,

First to be clear, from the Get-Go, I have been using Les' sticky all through this pursuit of the ever elusive wandering electrons.....

I began AM by testing out connections as MJ and Dale suggested last nite...
(I just saw this AM's posts--thanks for those will follow up later...)

Here are my results...ALL TESTS ARE WITHOUT ANY LAMPS BUT THE YELLOW SIDE RUNNING LIGHTS CONNECTED--NO TAIL LIGHTS!

RIGHT SIDE

Green to Ground--open
Brown to Ground--closed
Brown to Green--closed if I put the green wire on the clip and the brown wire on the screwdriver end. If I put the brown wire on the clip and the green wire on the screwdriver end, it stays open...?

LEFT SIDE

Yellow to Ground--closed
Brown to Ground--closed
Brown to Yellow --closed

Now, as a process of elimination thing, I decided to run some tests to revisit some strange results from yesterday. If everything was ok, all these tests should show open circuis.

TEST WIRE ATTACHED TO RIGHT TURN PEG, AND TESTING LEFT SIDE WIRES (YES, YOU READ THAT RIGHT)

Results: Brown Yellow, Ground wire all returned open results.

TEST WIRE ATTACHED TO LEFT TURN PEG, AND TESTING THE RIGHT SIDE WIRES (YES, YOU READ THAT RIGHT)

Results: Brown, Ground--both show closed
Green--shows open.

Finally, I did test the ground on both sides with test wire in the ground hole on the 4 flat and each side tested closed.

Gonna go shave, get 'nother cuppa...

Jim

[Hinermad]

Here are my results...ALL TESTS ARE WITHOUT ANY LAMPS BUT THE YELLOW SIDE RUNNING LIGHTS CONNECTED--NO TAIL LIGHTS!

Jim,

Let me make sure I understand: you have the left side running lights connected, with lamps in them? But no other lamps? I'm going to assume that for now - please let me know if I'm wrong.

RIGHT SIDE

Green to Ground--open
Brown to Ground--closed
Brown to Green--closed if I put the green wire on the clip and the brown wire on the screwdriver end. If I put the brown wire on the clip and the green wire on the screwdriver end, it stays open...?

If you have any marker lamps hooked up, I'd expect brown to show a connection to ground. Green open to ground is good if the right turn lamp is disconnected.

The difference in readings between green and brown depending on direction is odd, but it could happen if you have a diode (an electronic component - LED lamps are diodes) connected between them, or if there's a loose connection that opens and closes as you move the wires to test them. Are you testing at the plug? Try hooking your tester from the green to brown contacts and then flex the cable where it comes out of the connector. That's a notorious failure point for any cable - you can get shorts or opens that change as the cable moves.

LEFT SIDE

Yellow to Ground--closed
Brown to Ground--closed
Brown to Yellow --closed

Indicates brown and yellow are connected to to each other, or both are connected to ground. Again, if marker lamps are in the circuit I'd expect brown to show connected to ground.

Now, as a process of elimination thing, I decided to run some tests to revisit some strange results from yesterday. If everything was ok, all these tests should show open circuis.

TEST WIRE ATTACHED TO RIGHT TURN PEG, AND TESTING LEFT SIDE WIRES (YES, YOU READ THAT RIGHT)

Results: Brown Yellow, Ground wire all returned open results.

That's what I'd expect.

TEST WIRE ATTACHED TO LEFT TURN PEG, AND TESTING THE RIGHT SIDE WIRES (YES, YOU READ THAT RIGHT)

Results: Brown, Ground--both show closed
Green--shows open.

That's back to what we got up top - it looks like yellow, brown, and ground are connected.

My guess is a short between yellow and brown - that would cause the sympton of the left turn signal light being on all the time while the marker lights are on - but that condition with the green wire showing a connection one way but not the other should be checked out further.

Dave

[kayakrguy]

on the tongue with a short circuit that did Colonel Electron in...???


Dave,

You read my note correctly. The running lights ARE still on the circuits.

And the ONLY wire going through the running lights are the brown wires.

I agree that the yellow and brown are shorted to each other and ground.

The only place I can think of that might occur is in the 4 flat connector....

Or are marker lights a possible cause ? The marker lights only have 'internal' grounds, and if they shorted to the trailer frame that could create the path for brown and yellow to meet up??? These aren't the greatest marker lights--el cheapos from Red Trailer--one has two leads, the other has only one....

Jim