Building the Generic ET

General Discussion about almost anything Teardrop or camping related

Postby apratt » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:32 am

doug hodder wrote:I don't use CPES but the epoxy will do the same thing. You want to first seal the wood. The subsequent layers of epoxy will help build up the thickness and smooth out any small divots or deviations in the material. I don't know how well CPES builds up thickness. I usually put on 5-6 coats and sand it out. How much you do depends on just how smooth you want your finish to be. At this point, you can apply bondo if needed or use thickened epoxy with fairing microballoons to do any final body work. If you are doing a woody, you can't do any thickened epoxy, it all has to be built up with clear to really give it that thick deep appearance.

Shoot it with primer, especially if you used any bondo. On top of the primer, you can do any spot putty work to touch up any small dimples or spots that may show. Spot putty is like really thick primer, it goes on with a thin spatula. Sand, then prime or seal those spots so you can shoot paint on it. If you are going to shoot a light color coat, you can do a light colored seal coat over the primer to help with the color coat coverage. Try to get a primer that is going to be as close to your color as possible. Don't try to shoot a white paint over a red oxide primer as it will take plenty of paint. Then you can shoot clear over the color coat. Depending on whose paint system you use and your temperatures, you typically have like 24 hours to get the clear on. Longer than that and you are going to have to prep the new paint before you shoot clear.

If you want, and don't have a bunch of bondo or putty, you can shoot automotive acrylic urethane directly over scuffed epoxy with no problem, no primer is required. Any putties are going to require primer.

Thing is....like I've mentioned in previous threads, how smooth your final finish comes out just depends on how much time and effort you put into your pre-paint work. You can certainly do it with only like 1 or 2 coats of epoxy, it won't be nice and flat however. Automotive paint won't hide poor prep work and it can be an expensive lesson. Not the time to cut a corner. Also pearls can be added to the clear and there are a lot of them available, it can be purchased by the gram and you can add as much or as little as you want to doctor up your own tint.

Hope this makes sense, I'm still at the store and had a load of people interrupt me. Sort of the short version. Doug




I would add one more though here..... I never had any problem painting white over red oxide primer.... BUT I DO PUT SEALER OVER THE PRIMER FIRST BEFORE PAINT. Some sealer you can add color to it to have it closer to the color of the top coat. So here is the order... epoxy, bondo, spot putty (I prefer 2 part types with the hardner), primer, sealer and then either single stage top coat (just the color no clear coat) or 2 stage (my preference) base coat (color) and clear coat. :D
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Postby mikeschn » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:47 am

I just got a note back from Dr. Rot, saying I can use CPES to build up the finish prior to priming and painting. since I still have some CPES, I am going to start with that.

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Postby apratt » Tue Aug 12, 2008 10:58 am

mikeschn wrote:I just got a note back from Dr. Rot, saying I can use CPES to build up the finish prior to priming and painting. since I still have some CPES, I am going to start with that.

Mike...




I have used the cpes from rot doc. It is good for sealing the wood from rot, but it is so thin that it would take many coats to aceive the film build of what the expoxy can do in one coat. So in my opinion save the cpes for another project and get some expoxy. JM2C.
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Postby cuyeda » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:21 pm

apratt wrote:I have used the cpes from rot doc. It is good for sealing the wood from rot, but it is so thin that it would take many coats to aceive the film build of what the expoxy can do in one coat. So in my opinion save the cpes for another project and get some expoxy. JM2C.

So with this said... If planning to use automotive paint, can the CPES sealer step be skipped, and layer the epoxy on instead?

P.S. Doug... Thanks for the finishing guidelines.
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Postby doug hodder » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:31 pm

apratt wrote: BUT I DO PUT SEALER OVER THE PRIMER FIRST BEFORE PAINT. :D


Good point Arthur, I forgot about that step. I had a tandem dump truck come out looking like a swirley Mary K truck one time from not sealing. Ford Wimbledon white over red primer. I think it was some funky primer however, just some leftovers in the shop. On a lot of the epoxy primers, I haven't been bothering to seal prior to paint. No problems so far, however it's a for sure safety step to make sure you don't screw things up. Doug

Cliff...I just put the epoxy right on the ply...no CPES. Doug
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Postby swissarmygirl » Tue Aug 12, 2008 1:46 pm

Nevermind a manual, a spreadsheet or a flow chart of some kind would be really good. :thumbsup:
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Postby apratt » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:07 pm

doug hodder wrote:
apratt wrote: BUT I DO PUT SEALER OVER THE PRIMER FIRST BEFORE PAINT. :D


Good point Arthur, I forgot about that step. I had a tandem dump truck come out looking like a swirley Mary K truck one time from not sealing. Ford Wimbledon white over red primer. I think it was some funky primer however, just some leftovers in the shop. On a lot of the epoxy primers, I haven't been bothering to seal prior to paint. No problems so far, however it's a for sure safety step to make sure you don't screw things up. Doug

Cliff...I just put the epoxy right on the ply...no CPES. Doug




Cliff.... DITTO on what Doug said. :thumbsup:

Another reason for using sealer is to get a uniform color and it is also a adheasion promoter for the top coat also it helps on the fine sand stratchs. That dosn't mean you can get sloppy with your sanding. Still got to do good prep work.
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Postby apratt » Tue Aug 12, 2008 2:13 pm

doug hodder wrote:
apratt wrote: BUT I DO PUT SEALER OVER THE PRIMER FIRST BEFORE PAINT. :D


Good point Arthur, I forgot about that step. I had a tandem dump truck come out looking like a swirley Mary K truck one time from not sealing. Ford Wimbledon white over red primer. I think it was some funky primer however, just some leftovers in the shop. On a lot of the epoxy primers, I haven't been bothering to seal prior to paint. No problems so far, however it's a for sure safety step to make sure you don't screw things up. Doug



Doug, I too painted an old red ford dump truck. I also painted the wimbledon white on it. where ever I didn't have primer the old red nitrocelouse lacquer paint bled right through it. I think I painted it 3 times!!!!!! Before it got covered!!!! :x :x :x
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Postby KDOG » Wed Aug 13, 2008 10:44 pm

Couple of dumb noob questions. Whats CPES? And where do I get the square windows that are on this ET? They look perfect.
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Postby Dark Horse » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:17 pm

There are a few products that work better than Epoxy and Micro-balloons for fairing. the one I'm mast familair with is Quick Fair made by system 3

http://www.boatbuildercentral.com/prodd ... S3_QFa_3qt

its not cheap, but when sanding its much nicer than epoxy and micro-balloons. The thinner you apply it they happier you will be when your sanding, you can always add more :)
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Postby mikeschn » Thu Aug 14, 2008 5:41 pm

After reviewing the process of auto paint for a few days, and talking with my buddy, and looking at the condition of the wood, I've decided to use Uniflex 255 on the Generic ET.

That being the case, it should be ready to paint this weekend. I'll do some final sanding tomorrow, and put one last coat of CPES on, and then it's time to roll on some Uniflex.

KDog, CPES is this: http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/cpes.html

and since you are probably going to ask about Uniflex 255 next, that is this: http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/uniflex.html

Oh, btw, I filled in the holes with this: http://www.rotdoctor.com/products/fillit.html

Oh, those windows came from Grant, here: http://www.lilbear.teardrops.net/parts4.html#windows

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Postby Mstro » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:29 am

mikeschn wrote:After reviewing the process of auto paint for a few days, and talking with my buddy, and looking at the condition of the wood, I've decided to use Uniflex 255 on the Generic ET.


From what i read in the specs it should look real nice. :thumbsup:
I have one question about the mil thickness called for, Is that achieved in a couple of coat and would 18 mils be really thick?? :thinking:
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Postby KDOG » Fri Aug 15, 2008 7:52 am

Excellent! Do you have to order that stuff or is it available at Lowes' etc? Definetly going to look at those windows more closely!
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Postby cuyeda » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:22 am

KDOG,

Mike posted the links to the Rot Doctor's website above, which also sells the Uniflex.
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Postby Miriam C. » Fri Aug 15, 2008 8:47 am

Hey guys I just talked to Rot Dr. and Uniflex will no longer be available. Rot Dr. expects to be out before November so order up. :thumbsup:
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