Ready to get started. Have a few questions.

[rlphoto]

Hello!! Am I glad I found this place!!javascript:emoticon(':D')
Very Happy

Anyway, what I want to build is a very economical weekender style. (flat sheets) I want it to be 5 ft wide x 8 to 9 ft long. maybe 4 ft headroom. I am really going to cut corners on the weight, so it will be very bare bones. As light as I can make it. I want to able to pull it with a 4 cyl.

I have considerable welding and construction experience,(17 years jobshop welder/machinist) and I am pretty handy with wood tools also.

I need a trailer first. I have built several in my life, but none where I was concerned about the weight. It is also a hassle starting from scratch. I thought I might buy a harborfreight style....

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... mber=90154

And just widen the cross members and axle to 5ft. This way it already comes with a title(at least I think it does). These are made so cheap anyway Even with widening it, weight will be 300lbs. This model has 12in wheels.

I read the torsion tubes are better suspension that leave springs, but I dont want to start a trailer from scratch. I have built enough stuff in my life. I just want to camp. I want to keep the 1000 rule. Under $1000 dollars, and 1000 lbs loaded. I think it can be done.

Thanks for the help!

Randy

[IraRat]

Hey, Randy. Welcome.

Check Tom S's gallery/album here--Tom Swenson (a HECK of a nice guy too who appreciates my sense of humor).

He used a Big Red bolt-togther--which you can also weld with your experience--that was 5 by 8.

[mikeschn]

Starting from scratch shouldn't be a problem for a pro like you...

You could easily do something like this...



Mike...

P.S. I really think you are afraid to find a source for the metal. Are you near any Metal Stores?

[TomS]

Hey, Randy. Welcome.

Check Tom S's gallery/album here--Tom Swenson (a HECK of a nice guy too who appreciates my sense of humor).

He used a Big Red bolt-togther--which you can also weld with your experience--that was 5 by 8.

Ira, thanks for the Kudos on my site. Here are a couple of URL on that Red Trailer.

RedTrailers.com
My teardrop build site.

[rlphoto]

Starting from scratch shouldn't be a problem for a pro like you...

You could easily do something like this...



Mike...

P.S. I really think you are afraid to find a source for the metal. Are you near any Metal Stores?

Hi Mike, Yes I could easily build the frame. What is the size of you tube? and the wall thickness? How about the axle tube? Did you buy it already together with the torsion units?

Metal is no problem. I have been out of the business for several years now, but still have my contacts.

I remodeled my welding shop into a photography studio. Strange but true. I still work hard, but I dont stand on concrete all day long like I used to building steel.

http://www.laskodyphotography.com/index.html

The problem is the last small trailer I built, I got nickel and dimed on the small stuff so badly that I swore next time I do the trailer thing I was going to buy a kit with everything included. This is why I am looking at kits.

Thanks for the reply.

Randy

[rlphoto]

Hey, Randy. Welcome.

Check Tom S's gallery/album here--Tom Swenson (a HECK of a nice guy too who appreciates my sense of humor).

He used a Big Red bolt-togther--which you can also weld with your experience--that was 5 by 8.

Ira, thanks for the Kudos on my site. Here are a couple of URL on that Red Trailer.

RedTrailers.com
My teardrop build site.

Hi Tom, I checked out your very nice website. You did a great job documenting your progress, and your workmanship looks A1! I will be looking forward to the updates.

That bed rail is hard stuff. It has a high carbon content that can also zone harden in the weld area with out proper post weld anealing. These areas can easily fracture when stressed, so keep an eye on those areas around the welds.


Randy

[TomS]

Hey, Randy. Welcome.

Check Tom S's gallery/album here--Tom Swenson (a HECK of a nice guy too who appreciates my sense of humor).

He used a Big Red bolt-togther--which you can also weld with your experience--that was 5 by 8.

Ira, thanks for the Kudos on my site. Here are a couple of URL on that Red Trailer.

RedTrailers.com
My teardrop build site.

Hi Tom, I checked out your very nice website. You did a great job documenting your progress, and your workmanship looks A1! I will be looking forward to the updates.

That bed rail is hard stuff. It has a high carbon content that can also zone harden in the weld area with out proper post weld anealing. These areas can easily fracture when stressed, so keep an eye on those areas around the welds.


Randy

Thanks for the kudos and the heads-up on that bed rail. I'll keep an eye on it.

[WoodSmith]

The problem is the last small trailer I built, I got nickel and dimed on the small stuff so badly that I swore next time I do the trailer thing I was going to buy a kit with everything included. This is why I am looking at kits.

Thanks for the reply.

Randy

Randy,

I think that with your skills you may find that you get nickle and dimed buying the trailer kit and enlarging it.

You go buy a HF trailer, then all the cross members go in the scrap pile. You gotta find 5 foot cross members in the scrap pile, but they have to be the right size to match the sides. Now you decide you want a torsion axel instead of the spring axel that came with the trailer that you can't use anyway cause it's a 4 foot axel. So the axel goes into the scrap heap, and you get a new axel. But do the wheels that came with the HF trailer fit the new torsion axel? (Heap) Many people have commented that the coupler on the HF is junk, and having looked at it in the store I would not want to use it. (Heap) Does the wiring harness reach both sides of the trailer now that it is 5 feet wide? (Heap)

So when you are done, you have what parts of the HF trailer actualy in you new widened trailer? The tounge, the lights, 2, actually 4 side pieces, cause the HF trailer is designed to fold, so you had to brace, weld or otherwise strengthen those while you were at it, and the title.

Is that title gonna "hold up in court"? I've heard a saying - "this is Abe Lincolns axe - it's had 5 new handles and 3 new heads but it's Abe Lincolns axe!"

Plus you now have a pile of trailer parts in your scrap pile that you just can't throw away cause you know you will need them sometime, but there isn't quite enough to actually make a trailer, so you gotta make a trip to your supplier.

You may be right - the last trailer I worked on, I was around 10, and mostly held the dumb end of the wrench.

[asianflava]

I built my frame from scratch, and I can't weld! Actually, I bought the tubing ( 2X2X1/8 ) and took it to a buddy's shop. I mitered the corners on the abrasive saw then layed it out on the floor. My buddy helped me with the corner to corner measurements, then he welded it up. Towed it home the same night.

The axle I used is a Dexter Torsion axle. You order them pre-built then weld or bolt the flanges to the frame. The axles are custom ordered, they will ask you the weight capacity, width of the frame, the overall width, the amount of angle you want on your arms, hub face size, hub bolt pattern, etc.

The torsion axles allow you to weld directly to the frame, no leaf springs or shackles to worry about. It's all built into the axle.

[angib]

Looking for something else, I came across this (isn't it always the way?).



And the text with it:

"All the miniature caravans use the same chassis design. (Although sizes may vary) They are constructed from 40mm x 40mm x 3mm mild steel angle and 40mm x 40mm x 3mm mild steel box section. As you can see from the picture below it has been designed with strengthening cross-sectional braces. The Caravans bases are then bolted to the chassis."

Tardis Caravans (chassis)

I personally think the X-braces serve no structural purpose (this is not a 4-wheeler with torsion issues) but they do break up the floor area into smaller spaces.

40mm x 40mm x 3mm is about 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 1/8" and the tube is used on tongue and axle cross-member - everything else is angle.

Andrew

[Arne]

A note on widening the h/f trailer. I cut my x-members in the middle and welded angle iron in the space....

I think, using a bit of brain-power, it could be done cutting the provided x-members, splitting them and using 2/x3s full width to span the cut, and carriage bolts..... once the box (tear) is built, the only thing the xmember are really doing is major floor support and minor tear integrity.... I don't think I'd bother using metal.

Since I may build a second one with no metal frame (just a bolted on torsion axle and two arms from each wheel position meeting at the hitch), why the big deal about the floor x-members?

The major consideration as I see it, is the trailer tongue attachment. And, given that it occurs at the front of the tear, which happily is one of the strongest points (because of the front wall intersection), I think the idea is entirely feasible....ie, use wood to widen, not metal.....

We all, me included, start off thinking we need a frame, just as the car mfgrs did.... now most cars do not have a body on frame design, they use an integrated design where they put in the strength where it is needed..... I think a tear can be built the same way.....

[rlphoto]

The problem is the last small trailer I built, I got nickel and dimed on the small stuff so badly that I swore next time I do the trailer thing I was going to buy a kit with everything included. This is why I am looking at kits.

Thanks for the reply.

Randy

Randy,

I think that with your skills you may find that you get nickle and dimed buying the trailer kit and enlarging it.

You go buy a HF trailer, then all the cross members go in the scrap pile. You gotta find 5 foot cross members in the scrap pile, but they have to be the right size to match the sides. Now you decide you want a torsion axel instead of the spring axel that came with the trailer that you can't use anyway cause it's a 4 foot axel. So the axel goes into the scrap heap, and you get a new axel. But do the wheels that came with the HF trailer fit the new torsion axel? (Heap) Many people have commented that the coupler on the HF is junk, and having looked at it in the store I would not want to use it. (Heap) Does the wiring harness reach both sides of the trailer now that it is 5 feet wide? (Heap)

So when you are done, you have what parts of the HF trailer actualy in you new widened trailer? The tounge, the lights, 2, actually 4 side pieces, cause the HF trailer is designed to fold, so you had to brace, weld or otherwise strengthen those while you were at it, and the title.

Is that title gonna "hold up in court"? I've heard a saying - "this is Abe Lincolns axe - it's had 5 new handles and 3 new heads but it's Abe Lincolns axe!"

Plus you now have a pile of trailer parts in your scrap pile that you just can't throw away cause you know you will need them sometime, but there isn't quite enough to actually make a trailer, so you gotta make a trip to your supplier.

You may be right - the last trailer I worked on, I was around 10, and mostly held the dumb end of the wrench.

Hi Woodsmith,

Actually I was just going to saw the crossmembers in half and splice angle iron on the top and bottom flange over lapping 3 inches on each side. I can have them all cut and welded back together in a couple hours. I would lenthen the axle the same way. Now, the fact that HF trailer parts are substandard quality is something that I havent considered yet. But will take into account.

Randy

[rlphoto]

I built my frame from scratch, and I can't weld! Actually, I bought the tubing ( 2X2X1/8 ) and took it to a buddy's shop. I mitered the corners on the abrasive saw then layed it out on the floor. My buddy helped me with the corner to corner measurements, then he welded it up. Towed it home the same night.

The axle I used is a Dexter Torsion axle. You order them pre-built then weld or bolt the flanges to the frame. The axles are custom ordered, they will ask you the weight capacity, width of the frame, the overall width, the amount of angle you want on your arms, hub face size, hub bolt pattern, etc.

The torsion axles allow you to weld directly to the frame, no leaf springs or shackles to worry about. It's all built into the axle.

Looks very nice! Those torsion axles really give it a clean look.

Randy

[rlphoto]

Looking for something else, I came across this (isn't it always the way?).



And the text with it:

"All the miniature caravans use the same chassis design. (Although sizes may vary) They are constructed from 40mm x 40mm x 3mm mild steel angle and 40mm x 40mm x 3mm mild steel box section. As you can see from the picture below it has been designed with strengthening cross-sectional braces. The Caravans bases are then bolted to the chassis."

Tardis Caravans (chassis)

I personally think the X-braces serve no structural purpose (this is not a 4-wheeler with torsion issues) but they do break up the floor area into smaller spaces.

40mm x 40mm x 3mm is about 1 1/2" x 1 1/2" x 1/8" and the tube is used on tongue and axle cross-member - everything else is angle.

Andrew

Hi Andrew,

I really like the inverted angle flange all the way around.


Randy

[rlphoto]

A note on widening the h/f trailer. I cut my x-members in the middle and welded angle iron in the space....

I think, using a bit of brain-power, it could be done cutting the provided x-members, splitting them and using 2/x3s full width to span the cut, and carriage bolts..... once the box (tear) is built, the only thing the xmember are really doing is major floor support and minor tear integrity.... I don't think I'd bother using metal.

Since I may build a second one with no metal frame (just a bolted on torsion axle and two arms from each wheel position meeting at the hitch), why the big deal about the floor x-members?

The major consideration as I see it, is the trailer tongue attachment. And, given that it occurs at the front of the tear, which happily is one of the strongest points (because of the front wall intersection), I think the idea is entirely feasible....ie, use wood to widen, not metal.....

We all, me included, start off thinking we need a frame, just as the car mfgrs did.... now most cars do not have a body on frame design, they use an integrated design where they put in the strength where it is needed..... I think a tear can be built the same way.....

One of the reasons for maybe building a custom frame is to be able to remove the box and use the trailer for other things. Something I am thinking about. But I agree with you that a tear really dosent need a substantial frame system.


Randy