Problems with 12 V and 110 in Same Conduit?

[Micro469]

To simply answer your question........Yes there is.

[Larwyn]

A cheap volt/ohm/amp meter will identify every one of those wires, even if they are all the same color. If you do not know how to use the meter for this purpose then maybe you should wall your trailer with conduit and use wires of every color of the millions of colors computer rainbow. I spent a good part of the last 16 years of my working life working on control panels in electrical substations. Every wire was grey SIS, whether it was AC, DC, Hot, Neut, Positive, Negative, Ground, no matter all grey. Maybe that is why I do not understand the concerns of confusing wires. Nothing was in conduit and before "tywraps" we tied everything up into nice bundles with lacing twine. There were current circuits, potential circuits, and DC control circuits all in the same bundle. If you have a problem separating current circuits and potential circuits in your head, believe me, I understand. Knock yourself out, just do not think that I or others should take the same approach. Do whatever makes you comfortable, but suggesting that everybody else will die if they do not follow some obscure paranoid approach to segregating AC and DC wires is beyond ridiculous.

Pass along your knowledge of those aspects of the build of which you have knowledge, and your fear of those parts of the build of which you are ignorant. You should not confuse the two, nor should you expect me to do so.

[RichAFix]

Reading through this entire post is the reason the electricity part of my tear drop scares the jeepers out of me. My head is spinning. I know nothing about electricity except that it hurts when done wrong. Perhaps a couple flashlights and an iPod are best for me.

[Larwyn]

Reading through this entire post is the reason the electricity part of my tear drop scares the jeepers out of me. My head is spinning. I know nothing about electricity except that it hurts when done wrong. Perhaps a couple flashlights and an iPod are best for me.

Rich, I understand what you are saying.

You're camping!! Why would you ever need an iPod on a camping trip??
So that brings it down to a couple of flashlights, but then why would you need two. So now you are at one flashlight and probably no wires!! How simple is that??

I commented a few years ago on just how confusing the electrical forum could be to someone actually seeking information. As I could no more expect you to believe me than those with which I disagree, I have no idea what to tell you nor reason to believe that it would have any influence on your decisions anyway.

With the "wealth" of information out there these days, for a teardrop trailer, the best choice might just be an extension cord with GFCI for the AC and for DC, one of those rechargeable jumper systems, some of which even have an inverter. From that start you should be able to form your own opinions on what will and will not work.

[caseydog]

A cheap volt/ohm/amp meter will identify every one of those wires, even if they are all the same color. If you do not know how to use the meter for this purpose then maybe you should wall your trailer with conduit and use wires of every color of the millions of colors computer rainbow. I spent a good part of the last 16 years of my working life working on control panels in electrical substations. Every wire was grey SIS, whether it was AC, DC, Hot, Neut, Positive, Negative, Ground, no matter all grey. Maybe that is why I do not understand the concerns of confusing wires. Nothing was in conduit and before "tywraps" we tied everything up into nice bundles with lacing twine. There were current circuits, potential circuits, and DC control circuits all in the same bundle. If you have a problem separating current circuits and potential circuits in your head, believe me, I understand. Knock yourself out, just do not think that I or others should take the same approach. Do whatever makes you comfortable, but suggesting that everybody else will die if they do not follow some obscure paranoid approach to segregating AC and DC wires is beyond ridiculous.

Pass along your knowledge of those aspects of the build of which you have knowledge, and your fear of those parts of the build of which you are ignorant. You should not confuse the two, nor should you expect me to do so.

You have the knowledge and experience to put 16 grey wires in a conduit and not zap yourself. I don't -- which is why I don't do that, and why I wouldn't recommend someone else do it that has my level of electrical expertise.

If someone wants take better pictures of their kids, and asks for my advice. I don't tell them how to set up a studio -- I tell them simple ways to take better pictures it that anyone can handle. I don't talk to amateur photographers as if I'm talking to another professional.

I'm not a professional electrician, but I have been zapped. That's what I base my "advice" in this thread on.

[bobhenry]

.

CD

I am in the process of putting together a sort of owner's manual for my trailer electrical from hand written notes and diagrams. If we ever sell the trailer it might help the new owner use the trailer electrical. All of the D/C connectors are from Anderson Company. They plug together and unplug easily so I can remove components to make changes. But I have to know where to plug the connectors back together and reassemble things. I used colored electrical tape to mark each connection. Up to three different colors with the first color on each side closest to the connector. This gives enough different possibilities to make each connection unique.

For icing on the cake a Brother labeler makes nice little labels that stick on each connector saying where the wires are from or going to. Then I made a spreadsheet listing all the connections. There are columns for connector type, color, tape colors, from, to, wire sizes, wire colors and voltage. The spreadsheet was useful for adding a charging relay recently.
To be honest I never want to sell the trailer, but maybe an owner's manual will help me remember what goes where.

Bill[/quote]

http://cableorganizer.com/wire-marker/#features

mini labels 0 thru 9 gives limitless combinations and a great way to keep track of circuits and the best part colorblind people can still read the numbers.

[wlooper89]

The continued berating of this electrical falicy is a continuing source of amusement to me. I have 120 volt ac and 12 volt dc in the same lamp ficture and they have somehow survived without cremeating me in my sleep for over 2 year. If you have fused the 12 volt dc and the 120 volt ac is protected you will probably survive the night. Let's no scare the kids with these fairytail.

I have built many dual voltage fictures and they continue to serve after 2 years of camping. Just fuse each properly and you will live to tell the tale.



Stand back there is a 120 volt bulb in there It will probably explode any moment

I really like bobhenry's ideas on A/C and D/C wiring. Makes me feel ever so much better about the way I did mine. Come to think of it some dual voltage lights might be nice in my trailer!

Bill

PS Many thanks for the cable organizer link.

[Larwyn]

You have the knowledge and experience to put 16 grey wires in a conduit and not zap yourself. I don't -- which is why I don't do that, and why I wouldn't recommend someone else do it that has my level of electrical expertise.

If someone wants take better pictures of their kids, and asks for my advice. I don't tell them how to set up a studio -- I tell them simple ways to take better pictures it that anyone can handle. I don't talk to amateur photographers as if I'm talking to another professional.

I'm not a professional electrician, but I have been zapped. That's what I base my "advice" in this thread on.

I know very little about photography, but I have taken a picture or two. That's exactly why I do not give "advice" on photography.

[wlooper89]

Maybe some dual voltage outlets? One side 120V A/C, and the other side 12V D/C. This should be very convenient!

Bill

[Bradleyjay]

I'm a newbie here and this is my first time perusing the threads. Having toiled as a marine electrician the past 30 years, I chose this thread thinking it may be of interest. It is. The original question broaches a topic in which countless thousands of pages have been written. I've read many of them. Some I practice, I laugh at others, and some are solid gold.
I nearly lost your original question amongst all the talk of "code", gloom and doom, and the omnipresent visual of someone's little camper engulfed in flames while the charred occupants stand by and wonder if two conduits would have spared them this tragedy.
My answer to you is simple, run them together. Skip the conduit if you want. Use only appropriately sized tinned copper conductor and watch your chafe points. Properly terminate your conductor with captive terminal ends. (You can't get any of this stuff at Home Depot. Try West Marine.) If you're not sure of what any of that means, read a book, hire it out, or do without.
As for interference, doubtful you will have any problems. If you do, they will most likely orginate within the 12VDC system itself. Flourescent lights and alternators are biggies there, but either way, there are inexpensive filters available to filter out both AC and DC noise, both at the source, or in the affected device's power supply.
Finally, a pair of properly sized, insulated, sheathed wires will live happily ever after in intimate proximity, regardless of their respective voltages. A lot of the chatter about wires "rubbing together" and causing a short is actually the result of using too small of a conductor for the job. An inadequatly sized wire typically heats up somewhere along it's run and melts the insulation causing it to contact a neighboring wire. I have seen this many times in my line of work and if I didnt know better, I'd say those wires just done rubbed each other clean through. Not.
Hope I helped. I didn't see a real clean answer to your question so I thought I'd fit right in muddying the water a bit more.
Best of luck in your endevour...

[Larwyn]

Welcome Brad, your reply makes lots of sense. Just do not expect it to have any influence on those who consider themselves the "experts".

[Miriam C.]

How about we ask "Larwyn" about all things electric and "Caseydog" about all things photographic and let this thread die a natural death - PLEASE!

Dan,

Naw, forget it. If I am going to get in trouble with mods, I'll save it for something worth my time.

This thread and many like it provide a bit of humor in my otherwise dry day. How about we keep it that way..........

Brad---welcome to the electrical fun house. We haven't had a long one for a while. It's time is here.

[bobhenry]

Maybe some dual voltage outlets? One side 120V A/C, and the other side 12V D/C. This should be very convenient!

Bill

If you look carefully directly above the spice rack in the center of the galley wall you will see a standard duplex ac plugin center is the ac toggle switch and the dc rotary switch for the overhead galley light. On the right is a switched dc plug in . The large circle should be familiar looks just like the cigarette lighter in your car or truck.

Curiously my galley light is a commercial exit sign. The same lighted sign you see in any public building. They are equiped with a small 12 volt battery and a trickle charger and switching mechanism in the event of 120 volt ac power failure the 12 volt lighting takes over to illuminate the exit route. 2 entirely different types of electricity in 2 entirely different voltages in a commercially made safety product that is demanded by code to be in every school hospital and public building. This is where I got the idea for 1 fixture with combination voltages. While I removed the battery and charger and eleminated the automatic switching I still have a commercially made dual voltage fixture. If they are safe enough for a multi million dollar hospital I thought it might be safe enough for my $980.00 toy trailer.

[Bradleyjay]

Brad---welcome to the electrical fun house. We haven't had a long one for a while. It's time is here.

Thank you Mariam and Larwin, for the welcome. I think the gentleman's question has been suffciently answered, albeit multiple and conflicting answers, but debate is good. He'll make a sound decision I'm sure... This is kinda fun. What was the next topic to be?

[Bradleyjay]

Prolly figure out how to do the "quote" thingy. Sorry