4 wheel trailer with front wheel steering questions

[Steve_Cox]

I've been thinking about using this type trailer for a gypsy caravan build. What modifications would it need and does anyone out there have experience towing a steerable trailer at highway speeds? The photo below is a trailer about 67" wide and 144" long.

[Larwyn]

I've been thinking about using this type trailer for a gypsy caravan build. What modifications would it need and does anyone out there have experience towing a steerable trailer at highway speeds? The photo below is a trailer about 67" wide and 144" long.

We had an old in line 2 horse trailer with a steering axle back when I was a teen. Wheel balance and front end alignment are important, just as it is on the tow vehicle. It pulled fine gong forward (speed limit was 70), almost impossible to back up except with a tractor, somehow it was easier if you could look down and see the tongue (at least when I was in my teens). But it was easy to push backward by hand. We also had a hay wagon with steering axle but it was not intended for highway speeds. One advantage is that they have very little tongue weight, only the actual weight of the tongue resting on the hitch. They are easy to hook up because the tongue is free to swing right and left and unless chocked on an incline you can move the whole trailer rather easily.

I have a small utility trailer for my lawn mower with the steering axle. I like that it can be unhooked form the tractor and remain level while loaded with no problems. It has been a constant source of amusement trying to back that thing up with the John Deere, maybe this was easier when I was yonger, at least my wife gets a good laugh..............

[Steve_Cox]

Thanks for the reply Larwyn. I was pretty sure the backing up part would be entertaining....for the observers.

[Nitetimes]

I think I'd want to make sure the steering joints were all in very good condition. Just a little slop would probably make that very squirrelly on the highway.
Another thing that might make me scratch my head would be brakes on the front axle of that, in PA it would be required, I think whoaing it in a hurry would tend to make the front axle do a jig.
I've seen lots of farm wagons on the road around here and most of them keep it under 40 or they get to swingin'.
Just a couple of thoughts. You did ask.

[mk10108]

dont do it.

Made for low speed and manuverability

[Steve_Cox]

I think I'd want to make sure the steering joints were all in very good condition. Just a little slop would probably make that very squirrelly on the highway.
Another thing that might make me scratch my head would be brakes on the front axle of that, in PA it would be required, I think whoaing it in a hurry would tend to make the front axle do a jig.
I've seen lots of farm wagons on the road around here and most of them keep it under 40 or they get to swingin'.
Just a couple of thoughts. You did ask.

Thanks for the thoughts on the subject Rich. As far as the steering, there are a couple of types that are used on the road commercially, and I know there are lots of small commercial trailers like that in Europe. Guess a trip over to check them out might be a good idea

dont do it.

Made for low speed and manuverability

Some are, and some aren't. Lots of tandem tractor trailers on the highway, and they don't go slow

Got one of these " " Now I know for sure I want to build it. Wonder why that is?

[Larwyn]

Steve,

The last time I pulled that horse trailer would have been 1967, so it could be that I only remember the "good things" about it. I have tried to recall how the trailer actually pulled on the highway, but the only time that comes to mind was the time one of the trailer tires blew out. Seems like it did start to sway a bit before I got it stopped. Thankfully there were no horses in it at the time, I was going to pick one up. We pulled it with a 1956 Ford 1 ton and it had no problem staying in front of the trailer. (Given the choice I would really rather have that truck back now than the trailer).

I have found it very hard to find any information on light duty highway trailers with steering axles, so that may be some indication of their suitability or maybe just an indication of the complexity/expense of the design.

[Steve_Cox]

Steve,

The last time I pulled that horse trailer would have been 1967, so it could be that I only remember the "good things" about it. I have tried to recall how the trailer actually pulled on the highway, but the only time that comes to mind was the time one of the trailer tires blew out. Seems like it did start to sway a bit before I got it stopped. Thankfully there were no horses in it at the time, I was going to pick one up. We pulled it with a 1956 Ford 1 ton and it had no problem staying in front of the trailer. (Given the choice I would really rather have that truck back now than the trailer).

I have found it very hard to find any information on light duty highway trailers with steering axles, so that may be some indication of their suitability or maybe just an indication of the complexity/expense of the design.

I saw a picture the other day of a restored early 50's pick-up pulling a shepherd trailer with that axle configuration. It looked to be somewhere in the South West. Wish I could find the photo again.

I see advantages in turning in close quarters as the trailer will follow the tow vehicle and not cut the corner short. Could be good for those tracks in the National Forest that is near by. I've found some parts like thrust bearing plates etc. used in steering mechanism for some types of the trailers. Lots of patents on steering design, but very little production. Complexity/expense must be the reason. But when building it yourself the labor cost becomes secondary at least for me.

In the early 70's when I was stationed in Germany, My beer delivery man had a Vauxhall truck that pulled a small stake bed steerable trailer for beer cases. The trailer was about 6' X 12' or so. Maybe he didn't get on the Autobahn with it though

Anyway, I've started collecting photos of home built trailers with an a steerable forward axle..

Outside the Box thinking: I wonder how a small 5th wheel receiver would work mounted on car dolly

[Nitetimes]

Outside the Box thinking: I wonder how a small 5th wheel receiver would work mounted on car dolly

That is something you have to be very careful with. The tongue, unit mount either has to be very stiff and well braced or it needs a 4 wheel carriage. The problem with it is the 5th wheel plate will move for and aft in stops and starts, could cause lots of handling problems. The other thing to think about....ever follow a tandem or triple trailer rig? They tend to snake quite a bit. If your on a less than flat road the tow unit and trailer are going to want to run to the low sides of the road so I'd say pulling with anything less than a full size pickup is gonna put a lot of stress on the tow vehicle.
I have seen this setup advertised several times and don't care for it, too many variables that can't really be controlled for it to work well.
Also a lot of added weight to drag.
I build four wheeled steering trailers occasionally for the place I used to work and they are never rated for more than 35mph, I've done some test pulls with them and 35 is right on the edge of the trailer whipping all over the place and when you hit the brakes at that speed you can see the trailer trying to head for one side or the other.
I wouldn't tell you not to do either one but I certainly wouldn't recommend them either, particularly if you want to get on any interstates.
Just some food for thought.....

[Steve_Cox]

Thanks Rich

[Wimperdink]

What about an articulating front wheel setup with some sort of return to center dampening system and the hitch is hard mounted to the trailer frame. It would pull like a small car behind an RV.

Harder on tires yes but no weight on the tow vehicle and proper asthetics.

[Steve_Cox]

What about an articulating front wheel setup with some sort of return to center dampening system and the hitch is hard mounted to the trailer frame. It would pull like a small car behind an RV.

Harder on tires yes but no weight on the tow vehicle and proper asthetics.

Yup, they make those, or have in the past. Seems the important thing, high speed operation aside, is to get the tongue length right so the rear wheels of the tow vehicle and the turning wheels of the trailer have the right geometry to cause the tow to follow the track of the tow vehicle.

[jss06]

why not start with a car/truck frame and axles and build on top of that. Then just flat tow it like a car.

[Steve_Cox]

why not start with a car/truck frame and axles and build on top of that. Then just flat tow it like a car.

Here's a picture of a German Shepherd's wagon

[Wimperdink]

lol thats cute...

As per the geometry of having it follow the tow vehicle properly, how do diff length vehicles get away with it following an RV? A jeep cherokee would have a diff wheel base than say a toyota corolla. Both seem to be favorites for tow behinds. The tow bars are not extremely differant

Then beg's the question, how are they to back into place. Are you sliding the front wheels on the ground?

If its only asthetics, How about sliding axles... they are together at the back when towing, but when ya get there, slide one axle to the front just for the look.