Design Ideas & Questions for a small Chickadee TD

[NWsage]

Hi,


We currently have a 4.5' wide, 4x8-profile Kit Clone teardrop that I love ... it's a big step-up from tent camping. Unfortunately, not enough of a step-up for hubby ... so, I find myself camping solo most of the time ... which I actually enjoy.

But, our current td is really too big for my needs. When I camp, I just use a one-burner stove, a very small cooler, and a couple of battery-operated LEDs for light. So, I'm planning a build of a small, lightweight teardrop with a profile about 25% smaller than our current trailer (about 3'high x 6'long) ... I'm just over 5' tall. Also, I'd like to use my '04 Prius as the tow vehicle and keep the gross weight of the td under 350 pounds. It'll be my "Chickadee TD."


I think I've read and re-read just about all I can here on ultralight design (special thanks to Mike, Andrew, Kenny, Roly, TinksDad, and Dave (dwgriff) for all you have shared). Now I'd like some feedback on my build plans, if you would:

- Use HF's 40" wide trailer w/8" tires (125lb net weight, 82.5 length, 40x48"bed) move axel back for correct balance and for enough room for the side door, remove two of the leaf springs.


- Build a torsion box floor, insulated with rigid foam. Use 1/8" Plywood bottom and top. Bolt to top of trailer frame, leaving 22" of tongue length.

- Use 3/4" x 3/4" pine for wall framing and spars.

- Use 1/8" plywood for walls and roof

- Insulate the sides and roof with rigid foam between framing and spars (similar to Steve's Puffin 2).


- Build using some screws, but mostly epoxy fillets and fiberglass tape (like Steve's Puffin 2).


- Fill holes, sand, and paint mostly white (again, like Steve's Puffin 2).

- Build a 1/2 galley door, like on Mike's ultralight design. Use rigid foam insultation on it.


- Use two 4" deck plates on the roof top and side bottom for ventilation (similar to Todah's Tear).


- Make the door opening about 24" wide by 33" tall, put in a small fixed window for light.

-I've yet to figure out Sketch Up, so all I have is what I've scribbled on paper:


Now for my first couple of questions.

I'd like to hide the frame by extending the 1/8" outside plywood below the floor using a rabbet joint attachment. How do you keep the wood from rotting that is next to the frame?


Since I'm only running 4.8x8" tires, I want to carry a spare with me. I'd like to hang it down, below the trailer, from the back of the tongue beam next to the cross beam. Will there be enough clearance? Will it be too heavy to be attached there? Other options are to carry it bolted to the back wall, or on the front either bolted to the wall or on the front of the tongue.

Thanks for any feedback you can provide.


Suanne

[mikeschn]

I like the concepts...

I believe 350# is possible. But don't plan on using a chassis. You're better off using the tongue and the axle mount that I have on the ultralight design.

Mike...

[dreadcptflint]

Wow, your Kit Clone is gorgous. If you need company camping then let me know.

[tinksdad]

I'm glad I was of some assistance, even if I didn't know it at the time.

If you do decide to use the HF Mini (as I affectionately call it); welcome to the 40" club!!

After reading your list of techniques you want to incorporate, I had to go outside and get a couple of measurements off Itty-Bitty. I all ready knew she weighs in at 327 pounds empty. The cabin is 83" long to the outer most edges of the curves. The floor length is 75". My HF bed is actually 41" wide even though it is listed as 40". Using 3/4" ply walls set to the edge left me a 39 1/2" wide floor. On the last camp out, that was enough room in the galley for my electric coffee pot and a small electric skillet with a little room to spare (tight but not un-workable). The coolers sat outside except at night when they went into the tow vehicle to discourage masked bandits.

As far as moving the axle back on the frame, you can only move it back about 9" because of the spring mounts. There is enough room between the middle and rear cross member to mount a 12" spare (you said you would probably use the 8" wheels) if you don't move the axle. If you move the axle back, I don't think you would have the clearance between the floor and the axle. I'll double check that tomorrow when it's light out. The stock tongue may still be too short. For my less than 7 feet, I had to extend it by 24".

There is enough clearance between the tire and the frame so that your plan to run the 1/8" ply outer skin down over the frame will not be an issue. Just make sure it's sealed very well before you attach it.

One thing that I would consider is two doors instead of one. When I can make time between outings, I am going to cut a second door into Itty-Bitty. The weight of an additional latch and hinges will be minimal and gives more options to setting up on a site. And even on a 40" wide, the extra door will make putting the sheets on the bed easier.

From your preliminary sketch and your description, I think I can get enough information to do a work up in Sketchup for you if you would be interested. If you want to do it yourself, I did upload a "to scale" model of the HF Mini to the Google Sketchup library. Search by HF Mini or tinksdad and you should be able to find it.

There are probably a couple other things I should mention; but I can't remember them right now. Have fun building. And if you have any questions that I can answer, I gladly will.

Jerry

[Miriam C.]

Suanne, if you don't move the axle above the springs you should have room to fit the spare. They don't take up a lot of room and if needed you can make a mount for it like Barb did. She posted how in Lady Teardroppers.

Good luck and pleaseeeeeeeee take lots of pictures.

[kennyrayandersen]

I'll write some more about this later, since I've been thinking a lot during the conceptualization of the uber ultra. I'm with Mike though. There is no reason to have a frame at all -- seriously. With just a bit of local reinforcement you should be able to go frameless and at that weight you could easily go with the 8 inch wheels etc to save weight. You goal is certainly possible, but it will be a bit harder with a frame. (still doable, but it would be that much lighter without it.

I'm going to start posting some detail sketches shortly and maybe that would help see how to do it without a external frame. It should actually be quite robust. I design and analyze composite structures for a living (aerospace); so, I'm pretty confident that this is just about the lightest strongest method for building.

If you were REALLY worried, you could go with Andrew's A-frame which is a bit stronger yet and is kind of a frame, but it's not really necessary. You could save the weight AND cost of the trailer.

[NWsage]

... don't plan on using a chassis. You're better off using the tongue and the axle mount that I have on the ultralight design. Mike...

I'm with Mike though. There is no reason to have a frame at all -- seriously.

Mike & Kenny, That's good news to get your opinions about not needing a frame. I'll look forward to your sketches Kenny to see how you are going to put yours together. As you can tell, I'm not shy about adopting other's good ideas.

Also, I'm not sure about WA State inspection implications on frameless trailers ... so, will have to research that a bit. I know Del wrote that homebuilt trailers cost $50 to inspect.

... if you don't move the axle above the springs you should have room to fit the spare ...

Miriam, That's exactly what I was hoping to hear. Thanks ... and pics-r-me!:pictures:

My HF bed is actually 41" wide ... As far as moving the axle back on the frame, you can only move it back about 9" because of the spring mounts ... There is enough clearance between the tire and the frame so that your plan to run the 1/8" ply outer skin down over the frame will not be an issue. Just make sure it's sealed very well before you attach it.

Jerry, Thanks again for providing your real-life data ... very helpful. I'm thinking about your idea to add an additional door, too ... I definately see both pros and cons.

Also, I may take you up on your offer to put this in SketchUp. I've seen your rendering of the HF trailer and it looks good. Let me play with my paper-and-pencil drawings some more and then I can give you some better measurements.

Wow, your Kit Clone is gorgous. If you need company camping then let me know.

Thanks. Do you all plan on going to any of the TOW gatherings coming up? If you are not familiar with "Teardroppers of Oregon & Washington," their website is http://www.teardroptrailers.org/. They are a real friendly group of folks. Other than that, I'll PM you when planning to camp to see if you are available.

Thanks again for all of your input ... much appreciated. Suanne

[NWsage]

I'm thinking about how to weather proof the door and hatch. With our rainy northwest weather, I have problems with water coming into the door of our current td ... despite many attempts to fix it.

I was looking at how the hatch is sealed on my prius and see that the gasket is well within the parameter of the hatch with the bottom, between the hatch and the car, open to allow moisture to drain down and out. I'll take some pictures to post that will hopefully help with this description.

I'm wondering if such a set-up would work for a td. For example, apply a gasket directly to the door, omit the wall framing at the bottom of the door, so that when water got between the door and the trailer wall that it would just drain down and out the bottom. Of course, everywhere between the door and the wall where water could get must be well sealed.

On the galley hatch, it might be a challenge to put the top of the gasket at such a slope as to create enough drainage.

What do you think?

Suanne

[b.bodemer]

Great idea for a lightwieght camper..............can't wait to see your progress!

Barb

[kennyrayandersen]

I didn't want to double post and I wanted to keep the tread continuity with the ultra uber, so I posted the link here. What I did was lay out what basically needs to happen to eliminate the frame with regard to the approach and philosophy. Later I'll add more details, but since there was some discussion here about going frame-less, I thought I'd link.

http://tnttt.com/viewto ... 5&start=75

[del]

Also, I'm not sure about WA State inspection implications on frameless trailers ... so, will have to research that a bit. I know Del wrote that homebuilt trailers cost $50 to inspect.

Suanne

If you use the frame like Mike did in the ultra-lite plans, the vin number stays with your trailer. I would tag it with that vin #, if anyone asks you modified the frame slightly, do not confuse our state workers with you modified it away.

del

PS the inspection is $50, tax and tags are separate.