Couple question before the sawdust fly

[kevingb]

We have our profile picked out and the layout done but i'm stumped on a couple items before I drink the Kool-Aid... Grumman2 clone

I have seen where a lot of people are waiting for the 2nd build to really go crazy, I was falling into this also but kept on asking myself, why. I want to build what I want the first time even if it takes longer or cost more. Am I missing sumtin?

I really like the vintage Woody. Seems there is more maintainance but is it really that much more? It will be stored in garage. As for the roofing i really like the black vinyl top.

Now for what really has me stuck.. I will be building 5' wide and will be using 15" wheels with Torflex. I'm really thinking of tucking in the wheels in about 4" which will cause a finder well, the main reason for this is for aesthetics only. Any opinions?

Thanks for any input -
Kevin

[wannabefree]

Welcome to the Cult of Teardrop!

I'm building a 5 footer over a HF 4 foot wide trailer. That put my side walls right about the center line of the tire. You can see how I am dealing with it.



The "fender" is built up of 4/4 mahogany, covered with 4/4 purpleheart and maple plugs for the screw holes.

As to why people build a second, third and so forth. Experience is the best teacher. Something like this has to be done at least 3 times: 1 to make mistakes, 2 to learn from those mistakes, and 3 to make fewer mistakes. That said, we decided our tear would be something we could be proud of and are using the best materials and techniques we can afford within reason. That doesn't mean we don't make compromises, such as the HF frame. I have another reason for wanting to do this right the first time: I may not get another chance to do something this ambitious. That's another story, though.

Watch the forums for months before you dive in. You can learn a lot. Here are a few things I didn't learn from the forums but am learning now:

1 - it takes a long time. I'm past the 6 month mark and taking time off work to finish this thing by summer.

2 - I would not build out over the wheels for #2. It adds complexity and failure modes you don't have if you build between the wheels. Just before I put the floor on I started worrying about the walls sagging in the wheel area and added all kinds of stuff to strengthen that area. Probably not necessary, but going back later to fix it is impossible.

3 - Try to get 4x10 or 5x10 plywood if you need it. I wish I had tried harder. Seams show no matter how hard you work on them.

4 - Woodies are cool and take a lot longer to build. Skin with aluminum if your time is limited. I thought I would save $. Nope. Time is money, and aluminum can be cool, too.

5 - Don't try to do bent laminations using the trailer as a form. See my album; build a form. The problem is you can't get to both sides to clamp when you bend on the trailer. The inside strips will try to separate as they soak up moisture from the glue and there isn't a thing you can do about it short of putting a screw every couple inches.

6 - Build the hatch completely in place. I built mine half on, half off the trailer. One side sprung out about 3/4 inch. Ouch. It's not fatal -- a good spring hasp will pull it in. But it bites, nonetheless.

7 - The forums are good, but if it doesn't pass the common sense test it probably isn't right. Not everyone who contributes is an expert; some are just opinionated.

8 - Buy all your hardware before cutting the first board. Hardware will dictate things like window placement, wall thickness, wiring locations...

9 - Wait to finish #1 before starting #2 You will want to start #2.

[Miriam C.]

Sounds great to me! I didn't trick mine out as a direct result of a sharp learning curve and a bent frame. I altered a few things to accommodate the frame and decided to enjoy the heck out of it. Now I am thinking of saving for a custom frame but I might as well make a whole new one and ................ see the problem.

[Juneaudave]

Ya know Kevin, I think you are spot on...take a little more time, don't cut corners on materials, and build it the way you want. All of your ideas are sound and can work very, very well. Maintenance shouldn't be a problem...just keep the water out. A fender well seems like a neat idea..if you can picture the look...go for it, its your trailer!!!

[wannabefree]

I feel like I should apologize for long posts.

I'm sorry!!

[doug hodder]

As to why people build a second, third and so forth. Experience is the best teacher. Something like this has to be done at least 3 times: 1 to make mistakes, 2 to learn from those mistakes, and 3 to make fewer mistakes.

Sorry...I'm one of the opinionated ones...I disagree...I built 4 because I wanted the project and opportunity to be creative. Every one of them is very different. I don't believe that multiple builders build for the sake of trying to get 1 good one. It's more the opportunity to do something that no one else has done. Doug

[kevingb]

Long posts are awesome as long as they are on topic... thank you...thank you.

I have been snooping for almost a year now, I actually found this forum looking for Dutch oven receipes. All though I'm blessed with ADD, I keep a very open mind and research the heck out of everything... sometimes too much

You read my mail on the 5x10 and 4x10, I found a local supplier selling MDO, which will cost me about $160 for sides and floor. Then today i was ordering some rolled steel for new smoker and found 5x10 40 alum for $50 which started to detour me again for a quick build.

Geez... PURPLE HEART... I turned candle sticks and matching bowls for the wife years back, I had to sharpen tools every 10 min....But its beautiful.

[toypusher]

Just my opinion, but I really like the look of the wheels completely on the outside and NOT tucked under any. Also, like to maximize the space inside and not loose any to a wheel well.

[kennyrayandersen]

I second that. You will really add a lot of complexity, time and effort, so you have to make sure it is really important (this from a guy who USED to make round speaker enclosures just to be different!). Try and thing elegant simplicity. Clean lines and shape will go a long way to making it look good without a lot of difficult details. Sure, do what you want, but everything has a price -- just don't make the bill too big!.

[Steve Frederick]

As to why people build a second, third and so forth. Experience is the best teacher. Something like this has to be done at least 3 times: 1 to make mistakes, 2 to learn from those mistakes, and 3 to make fewer mistakes.

Sorry...I'm one of the opinionated ones...I disagree...I built 4 because I wanted the project and opportunity to be creative. Every one of them is very different. I don't believe that multiple builders build for the sake of trying to get 1 good one. It's more the opportunity to do something that no one else has done. Doug

Amen Doug!
I'm in it for the creative process. If I can sell one, even better!
Each build offers a new opportunity, to test your skills, patience, creativity.
Quality takes time/effort. Your work really shows this Doug!

As for maintenance, I like woody's, most like metal clad T/D's.
Wood will require a light sanding and re-coat once every three or so years. I've seen threads on the subject of polishing aluminum..I'd rather roll out some spar varnish! Any toy worth the price requires care.
When considering advice on forums, look at the results and experience of the poster, if they have any. Folks who are doing it, or have done it are the best sources.

I'm no expert, but I play one on the internet!

[Duane King]

I would have to say I agree with those that suggest you do NOT tuck your wheels into the sidewall of the trailer. My wife and I sleep comfortably in our almost queen size bed in our 5' wide tear. If we lost 4" on each side because of a wheel well it would be almost the same as sleeping in a 4' wide tear. Nothing against cozy you understand. . . It's just we want to be comfortable for the long term and maybe even have our little dog snuggle with us on really cold nights. Snuggling up against a wheel well wouldn't be nearly so comfortable and if you didn't like it, you'd be stuck with it.

Good luck

[48Rob]

When considering advice on forums, look at the results and experience of the poster, if they have any.

...So basic...yet so often ignored!

[kevingb]

I see were everyone is comming from... looking at it from the inside again, the fender well could be a shin buster. Also, I would hate to take a cut off wheel to a $350 pair of fenders (if I chose something like that).

Any toy worth the price requires care.

That is so true!!!!


Thanks all...

[48Rob]

Hi Kevin!

I believe there are two basic types of builders.

The first have some building/design/planning experience.
Doug is a good example.
These builders have enough experience/knowledge to design and build what they want, without a lot of difficulty.
(Not that its easy, but design and forethought is a large part of a successful project)
Doug stated very nicely why he's built several.

The other type of builder is a first timer.
May or may not have ever used a saw or hammer before.
(This is not a put down to those who "never have", in fact, you are to be congratulated for giving it a go! America was built by people like you who had the courage to give something a try!)
Many first timers have never built, planned, designed anything, and their first steps into the waters are small, and taken with much apprehension.

Most look for the easist methods/routes to take, creating a basic, simple design that they feel they can handle.

Once finished, they either realize it just isn't for them, and they sell out, or fade away.
Some decide they like what they built, and enjoy it.
The rest realize that they have more talent than they thought, and with a new awareness of what is required, along with fresh experience, they set out to create the masterpiece they wanted to do in the first place, but lacked the confidence/experience to pull off.

A wood sided trailer is a little more maintenance than a plain aluminum skin.
Designing/building a wood sided trailer also takes a little more planning and skill to prevent leaks at the joints.
Unlike an aluminum sided trailer, you can't just screw a piece of metal trim over the joints.
A wood sided trailer also requires extreme attention to detail with regard to encapsulating the wood, and touching it up on a regular basis, as in rock chips, etc.
Anywhere water is allowed to get behind the finish, the finish will peel, and the wood will turn black.
Many people build a wood sided trailer; screw or nail on trim and attachments, then varnish without considering that water will get between pieces of wood.
Applying varnish after you attach trim doesn't protect the backside of the trim...

The majority of people who bad mouth varnish, generally do so because "all it ever did for them was peel off".
Varnish has its limitations, but understood and applied correctly, it makes a great finish.

If you plan to keep the trailer inside while not in use, you may well get up to 10+ years of life from the varnish.
It does require some effort to refinish, but not that much more.
If you had to keep it outside, I would try to steer you toward aluminum, as you'd be lucky to get a year from the finish.

As for fender wells inside, using 15" wheels, the box will likely be 10-12" tall.
If you put your bed on a platform even with the top of the wells, you'll have a nice storage area under the bed, BUT it requires a fairly tall profile to pull off.

Rob

[Big DE]

Kevin welcome to the madness. I really think the fenders you are talking about are worth it if you look at my album you can see how I did it and my fenders were only $30.00 a piece and it gives it a nice look without having the knee knockers.

Big DE