Screw Lube (no dirty thoughts please)

[Dale M.]

Any body have problems putting those really long Philips head screws into a piece of really wet or hard (kiln dried) wood?...

Doe anything help?. How about silicone or graphite sprays.... Years ago my father tough me to use soap on threads when using manual screw driver.

Lately I been thinking if one just dosed entire box of screws with dry silicone lube it might make things easier...

Any thoughts?....

And how many screws are you able to drive with power tools before Philips head bit gives up on you... Seems once bit slips in screw once or twice, bit is "done for" and screws heads are trash.... I know the Phillips head screws and bit have to FIT one another but I don't seem to be getting any mileage out of bits.... Any particular brand name that seems to work best?

Dale

[madjack]

Dale, I get pretty good life from "Scorpion" bits from B&D...I also pre-drill as many of the screw holes as I can and pre=lubing can be of great help...since you should put a dab of sealant in any exterior screw hole, that lubes as well...the trick to best bit life is to make sure the drill/bit is square to the screw and keep hard pressure on it so it doesn't jump out of the screw head...cheapy bits aren't worth the steel they are cast from and bits made for deck screw generally last longer than bits for drywall........
madjack

[tinksdad]

Don't know if it will help (or is even practical); but back in the day before power nailers were all the rage I used to be a finish carpenter. I used to carry a hunk of bees-wax that I would stroke the nails on before trying to drive them through oak and such. Things probably have changed since then. I know nails have gotten cheaper and bend more easily.

As far as phillips head drivers and screws... when building "Itty-Bitty" I used two drills. One with a driver bit and one with a regular drill bit for pilot holes. Even with keyless chucks, it saves a lot of time. I also went through twice the number of screws that I actually needed. I never re-used a screw. If I drove one to dry fit; I would back it out, put some sealer in the hole and drive a new screw in it's place. Don't even want to count the number of driver bits I went through. My local hardware store has bulk jars on the counter. I just went in and bought a handful in different sizes.

Unlike laying decking boards where speed is important; keeping even pressure and the driver and screw in alignment seems to be the key for me to slow down the number of stripped screws and drivers.

Just my two cents worth.

[Arne]

I use candle wax, but if do pre-drill any deep holes...

[48Rob]

Dale,

Soap and wax are the old standby's.
I'd hesitate using silicone anywhere close to where you may be applying a finish.

Having a decent set of drills and choosing the correct size to predrill your holes is the safest bet.
Sometimes the lube will help, but if the hole is just too small, you stand a chance of the part cracking or splitting because the lube allowed you to force a too large screw into the hole.

When I'm pre drilling, I'll use a scrap to drill a test hole in, and try a screw, if it feels too tight, I'll go to the next drill size until the fit is good.
Only takes a few seconds, and driving the screws is much easier!

The drill needs to be the size of the screw shank, not counting the threads.
If it still feels tight (as in very dry/hard wood) going one or two sizes up should solve the problem.
If you have very green wood, you shouldn't have much trouble because the wood will be fairly soft, but you can go a few sizes larger if needed as the green wood will shrink and tighten around the threads.

Rob

[Ed K.]

You can buy a screw lube at most woodworking supply stores but it's just bees wax. I've also heard that bar soap works.

Ed

[bobhenry]

For extra holding power use Lava soap

[kennyrayandersen]

Dale,

Soap and wax are the old standby's.

Rob

I've used both, but only if I were having some trouble -- otherwise I go nekked

[tk]

Dale, I doubt that silicone or graphite would help as much as a meltable type of lubricant. The reason (I've been told) that lubricants help to drive screws is that they wick away heat (by-product of friction) as well as reducing friction itself. This supposedly prevents expansion of the screw due to heat which expansion makes it harder to drive the screw. Wive's tale? I dunno. Soap, beeswax, pastewax, spit have all been used to good effect.

Another help is to switch to square-drive or star-drive screws and drivers--much less slippage than Philips.

Best,
Tom

[Mauleskinner]

I get my screw lube in the "shop supplies" section of the grocery store...Paraffin, sold as canning wax, same stuff used for candles. I think the chunks are about 2" x 4" x 1/2" in the box...I break one in half, and it's a handy size to swipe a screw on before driving.

Also works well to lube hacksaw blades and plane soles

David

[Larwyn]

I've found that far fewer screw heads are damaged if I use an impact driver rather than a drill/driver. I occasionally break a screw head off but driver bits seem to last longer, the screws are actually tighter and the impact driver requires less time and effort per fastener from the operator (I do not have to push as hard to keep the bit in the screw head). Also the square drive is less prone to strip than philips but all philips are not created equal, if the bit is a good fit to the screws there will be less slippage. Lube decreases friction, screws hold by friction, I avoid using it if possible.

As for impact drivers, I have, and use both DeWalt and Ryobi 18 volt versions. When it comes to impact drivers the Ryobi seems to be every bit as good a tool as the DeWalt. I use them for everything from 1 1/2" deck screws to 3" x 3/8" lag bolts. It might just be that I got a "good un", but it might be a good way to save some money on a great tool.

[Juneaudave]

I know this doesn't help, but for really long screws, I like to look around and buy the square head ones. I'm phillips challenged.

[Dale M.]

Thanks guys.... I know I used to hate Philips growing up when my dad passed down tools to me as a kid, all his Philips screwdriver were worn out and I could not work with them effectively and that does frustrate a kid..... In last few years better bits harder screws and power drivers kind of made me a new believer in "Philips"...

Recently bought some new property, previous owner has some dog/goat/chicken pens on it and some other odd "built things" and it was a mish-mash of Philips, square, and Torx drive screws and it drove me crazy trying to see what screw type it was with dirt and rust and screw head buried into wood and trying to find correct bit when trying to remove all the old stuff....

And now building a "tree house" for grand kids some of the old frustration returns....

I really don't want to go to square or Torx drive as I have so many boxes of Philips drive screws now.... But I see the positive side of how a square or a Torx drive locks bit into screw head...

Maybe new "impact drive" is answer, after all this really is a good excuse to buy new tools....

Dale

[Micro469]

I know this doesn't help, but for really long screws, I like to look around and buy the square head ones. I'm phillips challenged.

Yup.. when ever I buy something that has those Philips head screws in the package, I toss them and graab some Robertsons. (Squareheads, as you call them). Canadian invention, Canadian norm, and a whole lot better than Philips. I can strip a Philips screw in under 2 seconds flat, but have to be real clumsy to strip a Robertson......

[kennyrayandersen]

The other thing that REALLY helps if you ARE using a Philips head is to make sure you have:

1) a good driver
2) a driver that is actually the same number size as the head
3) drive it parallel to the fastener
4) pre-drill for any long screws (this goes for ANY drive system)

That takes care of 95% of what ails a Philips head screw

Square drives are less sensitive to all that, but I've never been bothered so much I felt compelled to change -- I've got too many Philips head screws left to use up.