Picking up steel tomorrow

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Picking up steel tomorrow

Postby mikeschn » Tue Aug 10, 2004 3:49 pm

Well we finally found the steel for the trailer... thanks Frank!!!

We are going to pick it up tomorrow. The metals supermarket is going to precisely cut it for us. Then we'll drop it off at the muffler shop around the corner from us, and they'll be welding it up.

Shouldn't be too long and we'll have a trailer poping out of the pile!!!

Here's the trailer we are going to build? Any comments? Thoughts?

Mike...

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P.S. Frank promised to start his teardrop soon!!!
The quality is remembered long after the price is forgotten, so build your teardrop with the best materials...
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Postby mikeschn » Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:31 pm

Oh here's a question for you guys...

I'm going to build the frame out of 2" square steel tubing. What thickness wall shold I get? Here are my choices...
.065
.083
.120
.145
.188

I already know the 3/16 is too thick. Is the 1/16 too light? Should I be using 3/32 wall? Your thoughts?

Mike...
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Postby Steve Frederick » Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:41 pm

Mike,
The frame looks like mine. I used 1/8" wall 2x2 tube.
Muffler shop!!! Never thought of that! :roll:
Have fun, you always do, don't you?
P.S. Thanx for the off board help! Your info was perfect!
Blessings, Steve
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Postby R Keller » Tue Aug 10, 2004 4:48 pm

Based on Grant Whipp's advice, I used 1.5"x2.5" rectangular steel tube, 0.095" wall (#13 gauge) for my chassis, with the middle tongue piece 2.5"x2.5" square steel tube, 0.095" wall (#13 gauge). And he fabricated it for me too. He tells me the welding a little trickier when you go with thinner walls - got to be careful you don't burn through the material.

The chassis is plenty strong for most purposes. But I don't know what Grant would recommend for real off-road use.

1.5" x 2.5" at any given gauge is a lot stronger than 2x2" on the vertical axis. And it weighs the same.

A 1.5x2.5" rectangular tube at, say, 11 gauge (0.120") is about 40% stronger (based on allowable deflection at long axis; based on maximum bending strength it is about 75% stronger) than 2x2x.120" tubing. Both weigh 3.07 lbs./ft.

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Postby mikeschn » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:09 pm

Okay, per Franks directions... I've added the centerrail... what do you think...

Mike...

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Postby McTeardrops » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:13 pm

Mike

I'd let the welding process used detiremine the thickness of the steel. I TIG welded mine using 0.120 wall 2" x 2" square tube . For stick or MIG I'd use the 3/16 wall or heavier. I don't want to think about a trailer gas-welded out of 1/16" tube!

I wasn't too concerned about the beam (vertical) strength of my frame, but rather the twist from my torsion axle, and the side loading from the tongue. I recomend diagonals in the first bay, and in the bay over the axle. A ladder frame like you drew doesn't have a whole lot of resistance to twist, and might tend to wrack the cab over time. I used rubber mounts to isolate the two. I prefer a single-tube tongue, and next time will use a long receiver hitch tube to connect, and just pull a pin to disconnect.
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Postby Frank » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:17 pm

Mike,

I misunderstood you on the phone, and had not looked at the picture yet. :(
Believe you will be ok with the orginal just use the .125 on the two toung
pieces, and yes thinner on the rest should be no problem. Sorry for the mix-up.
:)
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Postby R Keller » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:32 pm

Mike,

What will that frame weigh? Looks like you have a lot of cross members. Not sure if you need that many. Overkill?

Here's mine (sorry no dimensions on this drawing; outside frame width = 57.5"; total length = 14'). Fishplated at the start of the diagonals, gussets/body mounting tabs at corners.

The steel weighs about 110 lbs. The torsion axle/hubs probably another 80 lbs.

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Postby mikeschn » Tue Aug 10, 2004 7:37 pm

Rik,

If I hear you correctly, you're saying this is enough?

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Mike...
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Postby R Keller » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:02 pm

I'm not really the one to ask about this by any means... But I think I'd want a center tongue piece. And where is the axle? A torsion axle acts like another cross member in the chassis and the other cross members can be spaced accordingly.

Rik
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Postby Frank » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:06 pm

Yes and No, Believe you do need the cross members with gussets, (like we did your first one), to stop the twisting Lenny is speaking of. But seeing the tongue going under the "box" welding to the front and side rails in two different locations will be sufficent. You realize I did a combination of what Rik did and what Lenny did. Like you drew in the bolt together verson. But that is just my preference. What you have will work.

Frank

PS tried to call you, no answer.
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Postby mikeschn » Tue Aug 10, 2004 8:08 pm

The axle isn't positioned yet... :(

I expect it'll be about 45" to 50" from the back of the body, but I am going to adjust it after everything is built, and then have it welded in place.

Too bad I don't do FEA!!!

Unless someone tells me otherwise, it looks like it'll be a .083 trailer with 5 cross members, and .120 tongue members...

As such, it's looking to be heavier then I wanted... alas... I have overnight to thinkabout it!!!

Mike...
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Postby Guest » Tue Aug 10, 2004 9:44 pm

Mike,
Why don't you get a wire feed and do the welding yourself?
I've got a Millermatic 175 and it's a sweet unit.
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Postby Grant » Wed Aug 11, 2004 2:15 am

Mike!

You never said what kind of axle you'll be using. If you're going to use a single piece torsion axle, four crossmembers will be sufficient (axle beam will act as another crossmember), but if you are going to use a leaf-sprung axle, go to five.

To simplify things, make the whole frame out of .120 wall, but if you really want to shave just a few pounds, make your middle crossmembers out of .083, maybe even your rear crossmember.

I've read a few posts mentioning twist and/or flex of the frame under the teardrop - Guys & Gals, the ONLY place you're gonna get flex in a PROPERLY CONSTRUCTED teardrop is in an insufficient tongue construction. A WELL BUILT teardrop body is a torsional box - you could mount it on bed rails (don't laugh, it's been done, and the trailers survived for many miles), as long as you connected those rails to a strong tounge assembly. Very early teardrops had chassis constructed of WOOD, with a few metal plates bolted at critical junctures. I know of at least two examples that have survived well over 60 years of regular use.

Don't get me wrong! I'm not advocating "underconstructing" your teardrop's chassis (that's why I recomended using .120 wall on Mike's side rails and tongue assembly), nor am I advocating "overconstructing" your chassis (I still give Larry S. crap over the heavy-equipment-hauler under his Outback Teardrop ... ;-} ;-} ...). What I AM advocating is the recognition of what is really going on under your teardrop and the application of a little common sense supported by some experienced advice.

The basic foundation for building a teardrop was laid over 70 years ago, and not much (fundamentaly) has changed ... this ain't rocket science, Folks (unless you WANT it to be!). But we can certainly apply what we've learned since then, and incorporate some of the newer materials and building techniques developed along the way. What I WILL wager, though, is this - that those two 60+ year old wooden-chassied teardrops will make it to Minden, NE, and back next June (if they choose to come out) just as easily and carefree as any other teardrop presently being constructed by either homebuilder or commercial crafter.

Just my humble opinion. In the meantime ...

CHEERS!

Grant
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Postby D. Tillery » Wed Aug 11, 2004 8:30 am

Lenny,
You TIG welded an entire trailer? Holy smoke the time that must have taken you. All that foot pedal action! Or scratch start? Drop down to .023 wire and you should have no problem MIG welding tubing as thin as 16GA, thinner if you're careful.
Dean, that Millermatic 175 is a great machine. Investing in a good welder is money well spent spread over many years. D. TIllery
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