Food for Thought

Things that don't fit anywhere else...

Food for Thought

Postby Micro469 » Fri May 01, 2009 1:53 pm

http://www.youtube.com:80/watch?v=6-3X5hIFXYU

I'm not presenting this in a rascist way, but it is a wakeup call.......
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Postby bfitz » Sat May 02, 2009 9:27 am

It would be very interesting to see:
- a YouTube video from New England in the 1600's
- another of the victorian era discussing Irish imigration
- a video discussing exponential population growth and carrying capacity
- the inter-relationships between poverty/crime/violence/political instability/high birth rate/lack of education.

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Postby mk10108 » Sat May 02, 2009 12:05 pm

I’ve lived in the Middle East and found the people warm, intelligent, caring and individually, able to show great compassion and enjoy all life has to offer. Collectively however, it’s as though a switch is turned on and the rational individual you were talking to, who is now part of a group sounds like your basic Christian fundamentalist.

One experience I can relay while speaking with three close Arabic friends can provide an insight to the Middle Eastern conscience. While discussing world events, one fellow asked me what my religion was. A general inquiry, but one I was uncomfortable with. I spoke carefully relaying that we were able to choose our faith and after many years of thought, combined with world travel, participating in a war that liberated an Arab country, I discovered I was without a God. This disturbed my host and a heated debate (in Arabic) ensued. After about five minutes one smiled because he had the solution, he asked me what religion my parents were. I replied Christian (actually Southern Baptist but I felt for the moment, my response would suffice) more discussion amongst the group and they concluded that I to, was a Christian. That moment I realized although we were seated together, culturally we were worlds apart. At thirty one, and without choice, I was yoked to a faith by birth and, in that moment, started to understand the Middle Eastern mind.

Choice is a fundamental tenant of western life; freedom to choose is encouraged throughout our lives and responsibility of choice becomes our daily challenge. Freedom of choice in the Islamic world challenges the foundation of Islam and assaults both their faith and politics. Choice imposes a will of its own, and its impact on culture is absolute. Change in the Middle East is coming; can Islam embrace choice, accept moderation or will absolute control over its culture doom it to failure? Will it happen soon enough to stave off the next attack, perhaps not? Will the destruction of a million westerns satisfy Islam’s appetite of “murder and cease fire”? I did not meet a fundamentalist during my stay, but deep within their culture, the leap from a moderate to a fundamentalist, whether actual or in a support role, is smaller than a westerner thinks.

Americans are incapable of understanding how deep the hatred for our way of life is, mostly born of ignorance however quite real. The best I can come to explaining this is imagine the population of California going to bed and waking up with an overwhelming desire to destroy entire population of Arizona. No matter how hard we try to comprehend that statement, we can not, it’s dismissed as impossible; our culture prevents us legitimizing the thought. If an Islamic fundamentalist could get away with the destruction of Israel or the USA, rest assured without reservation, and within the justification of Islam, it would be done.

The acceptance of individual choice is the key to stability in the world. We know of two men whose leadership changed their culture, Gandhi and Martian Luther King. One methodically removed the British out of his country, the other changed institutional racism that controlled the choices of Black Americans. The common denominator cited was non violence civil disobedience, but in fact it was the culture of democracy and the rule of law that shamed both cultures into change and ultimately responsible for the success of the movements. True the horror of civil war that followed in India mirrored ours, however democracy implies no guarantee that the tenets of choice is without violence. Both men forfeited their lives for their beliefs and perhaps the “murder and cease fire” thesis is an expedient way to remove the cultural collective and allow democracy to evolve. The price of change is high; both men forfeited their lives and became true martyrs for humanity. Can Middle Eastern men challenge their culture without the threat of Koran extinguishing their life? Would they even want to? Moving from control to choice cannot be imposed by west; it must come through the voice of reason within the region. If reason fails and the culture of death prevails, how will a modern democracy reconcile morality with survival?
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Postby chorizon » Sat May 02, 2009 12:45 pm

Very well thought out response MK. You've turned an account of your personal experience into an interesting thought-provoker. There are fundamental differences in the beliefs of many cultures that are difficult for those on the outside to comprehend. As a small example, my Mexican friends truly cannot fathom why I, at 35, haven't had any children yet.

BTW: Its not for lack of trying! ;)
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Postby rvsixer » Sat May 02, 2009 2:34 pm

Wow the thread went from a slanted piece of propaganda (imho, and however true or untrue I won't comment) - to one of the most insightful via MK's post (thank you MK).
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Postby iplay10us2 » Sat May 02, 2009 4:34 pm

rvsixer wrote:Wow the thread went from a slanted piece of propaganda (imho, and however true or untrue I won't comment) - to one of the most insightful via MK's post (thank you MK).


My thoughts exactly.
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Postby Senior Ninja » Sat May 02, 2009 7:15 pm

The presentation assumes that the Muslim birthrate will remain fixed. If we look at other groups who've come here we find that their birthrates have become similar to ours.

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Postby mk10108 » Tue May 05, 2009 11:21 am

rvsixer wrote:Wow the thread went from a slanted piece of propaganda (imho, and however true or untrue I won't comment) - to one of the most insightful via MK's post (thank you MK).


Fallacy of the film is that no intermingling of culture will occur. US Muslims seem to be accepting our culture without difficultly.

I would encourage people to read "End of Faith" by Sam Harris. Not as a book against religion but as an insight into a fundamentalist mindset. He parallels Islamic and Christian fundamentalism and shows how Iron age philosophy combined with 21st century destructive capability is cause for concern.

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Postby Nitetimes » Tue May 05, 2009 1:21 pm

mk10108 wrote:
rvsixer wrote:Wow the thread went from a slanted piece of propaganda (imho, and however true or untrue I won't comment) - to one of the most insightful via MK's post (thank you MK).


Fallacy of the film is that no intermingling of culture will occur. US Muslims seem to be accepting our culture without difficultly.

I would encourage people to read "End of Faith" by Sam Harris. Not as a book against religion but as an insight into a fundamentalist mindset. He parallels Islamic and Christian fundamentalism and shows how Iron age philosophy combined with 21st century destructive capability is cause for concern.

RV6'er. Nice ride


Yup, you put those 3 things together and somebody somewhere is always going to have a bad day!!!! :roll: :roll: :roll:
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Postby xrover » Tue May 05, 2009 1:59 pm

According to Russel Peters (comedian) we're just going to become a society of beige.
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