Hurricane Question--But NOT Political

[IraRat]

Putting the other Gulf areas aside, where things were totally blown away, I'm curious about New Orleans:

With all of the talk about N.O. having to be totally rebuilt, is this really the case? I mean, yeah, everything is under water--but does that mean every home/office building will be structurally unsafe, and have to be demolished?

Seriously, I know the damage from water can be extensive, but does that mean that EVERYTHING is now worthless?

[mikeschn]

I guess black mold is going to be a serious problem.

Sounds like they have to bulldoze the town down. I don't think they will even let people back in to get personal belongings.

Then I would fill it in with dirt.

Just my $.02

Mike...

[SteveH]

Ira,

I talked with a friend of mine about this same subject who is a retired insurance adjuster, and he said all the homes that have had water standing in them in high levels for more than a few days will have to be bulldozed.

[Arne]

Well, they been taking a few dams down to reclaim rivers, now they have to make a choice. Given that many who left will not come back (fear, $$, etc.), this might be the chance to make it back into a port town (not city). But, I doubt it. We keep fighting mother nature.

When they talk about even touching the water can kill you, how much can they save.? And, yes, mold is a never ending battle in hot, humid climates. And, boy, did the mold get a foothold in n/o....

[IraRat]

Wow. I didn't know.

I moved to Florida right after Andrew, and although they had flooding, I think most of that damage was immediately caused by the wind. Didn't know about the standing water being that damaging.

And Arne, with the current political "discourse," wouldn't you think they would HAVE to vote on a plan that would fix future problems by using a lot of that land for the swamp restoration that will fix it?

I can't see how they can rebuild anything without getting it 100% right.

[Chip]

If they got to tear it down and demolish most of it,, rebuild the levees stronger and fill it with water and stock that sucker with catfish and carp,, Turn it into the largest world class fishing hole,, after the carp and catfish clean it up put in bass and really make some money,, leave a lot of the trees in place, talk about structure,, surround it with gambling casinos and ya got it made,,,

chipper

[IraRat]

If they got to tear it down and demolish most of it,, rebuild the levees stronger and fill it with water and stock that sucker with catfish and carp,, Turn it into the largest world class fishing hole,, after the carp and catfish clean it up put in bass and really make some money,, leave a lot of the trees in place, talk about structure,, surround it with gambling casinos and ya got it made,,,

chipper

Yeah, but I'd rather be in a bar listening to Jazz.

[Chip]

Ok Ira,, we build the bars, hotels etc on the levees ,, have a covered fishing pier off the lake side, bar and jazz bands on the land side and lux hotel above,, ohh and we got to have curb service to the fishermen and ladies on the pier,, push a button and order up food, dranks and bait,,

dat sound mo better,,,

chipper

[Guy]

Dear Ira,

Unfortunately the answer to your question, in some cases, is going to come down to insurance, FEMA, and the banks.

If the person has insurance, that person may get fully reimbursed for the cost of rebuilding the structure and ones possessions. However, we are going to have a unique, never before encountered, problem in the New Orleans.

The toxic nature of the flood water may contain contaminents that seep into the soil and do not percolate out as they do in different soil conditions and/or higher lying parts of our country. Some of these chemicals, such as lead (which was just reported at 7 times the safety level), if present, would possibly prevent the homeowner from getting a mortgage and continuing insurance.

The interaction of Federal health laws and environmental provisions would prevent the "Fannies" from issuing mortgages and guarantees in the areas that are toxically challenged. This would also apply to folks with VA loans.

For those without complete coverage, FEMA loans would also be constricted in cases of contaminated land.

The next few months will take some clearheaded thinking in our country about how to remove bureacratic obstacles so that conflicting laws can be resolved and rebuilding, reconstruction, and reconcilliation can take place. Our urban planning, construction and building materials industries are also going to have to put their heads together about resolving the above problems before there will be a fully implemented approach.

It will be a while before these issues are resolved since the question about whether to FULLY rebuild is just to hot to handle right now. One good thing for the many of the folk who truly love their Big Easy is that the French Quarter is still intact. This means the main draw for the tourist industry is still there.

[IraRat]

Ok Ira,, we build the bars, hotels etc on the levees ,, have a covered fishing pier off the lake side, bar and jazz bands on the land side and lux hotel above,, ohh and we got to have curb service to the fishermen and ladies on the pier,, push a button and order up food, dranks and bait,,

dat sound mo better,,,

chipper

THAT'S A PLAN!!!

And thanks for the rundown, Guy. That explained it all pretty well.

[SteveH]

After the hurricane that hit Galveston in 1900, killing I don't know how many thousands, they raised ( lifted not demolished) all the remaining building by 30 feet I think it was, and filled in the land that much. A moumental task, but that is what it would take to make New Orleans resistant, not imune, to hurricane storm surges.

The problem then would be, how long would it last? New Orleans is built on a tidal flood plain and is constantly sinking. The irony of it is, the REASON it is sinking is because of the levee's that have been built to keep it from flooding from the Mississippi river floods. It was the flooding river that actually brought the silt and dirt down to form the delta. Without that periodic flooding and silt being deposited, the whole delta area, New Orleans included, is sinking. It will not happen in our life times, but it will eventually sink into the gulf.

[mikeschn]

After they bulldoze it down, why don't they just move N.O. to the west a little bit, or even north of Lake Pontchartrain, and fence off the area that was N.O. and declare it off limits.

Of course N.O. is a huge shipping port. The proximity to the Missippi River would also have to be considered. No one ever said it would be easy or cheap.

And if it takes 10 years like that town in Japan, most people will have already settled down somewhere else. All they need to do is start a few jazz bars etc, and call it New New Orleans!

Mike...

[purplepickup]

It was the flooding river that actually brought the silt and dirt down to form the delta. Without that periodic flooding and silt being deposited, the whole delta area, New Orleans included, is sinking. It will not happen in our life times, but it will eventually sink into the gulf.

I was going to mention that too. As harsh as it sounds, considering the documented, undisputable geological fact that New Orleans is sinking and the delta is rapidly being consumed by the gulf as you stated Steve, rebuilding New Orleans in it's entirety in the current location might not be economically feasable. Maybe there are (expensive) major engineering solutions but if the geological conditions continue as they are now the city won't last over a century or so. And the possibility of a repeat of the current disaster is always possible.

[Arne]

I won't go too deeply into details, but I was in n/o in the mid-70's, and again last fall. My guide was a fellow cycle rider who lives/lived in the French Quarter.

In the 70's, jazz was everywhere in the quarter.. a 2 drink minimum and you could sit all day, shutters open to the street, it was wonderful.

Fast forward to last October. My friend said, stay between Bourbon St. and the river, and during dark, travel in groups. So, that cut off half of the F/Q. They hose it down every morning to get rid of the smell of urine from the bums that spend the nights in the F/Q. Could still catch a whiff near some alleys.

My friend said, if we wanted to visit the famous above ground cemeteries, do so with a tour. If we went alone (with all the above ground vaults, lots of hiding places) we WOULD get robbed (not MIGHT get robbed).

Now try to think of anything else in particular you know about New Orleans besides Mardi Gras? Maybe shipping?... and oh, the jazz. Our guide said it is basically gone, and we might find it in 2 or 3 places. I don't recall hearing any being played the 2 days were in in the f/q.... back in the 70's, you could go from one jazz place to another on many blocks.....

When in Gulf Port, we were told not to go to any campgrounds in East New Orleans... they have guards and gates..... no kidding. We did camp in a koa on the west side, they said 'safe enough, don't walk around outside at night'...... One of our fellow campers had stayed at c/g in e. n.o. and was held up walking 400 feet from the campground to the one and only convenience store in the 'hood.....

So, we went, we rode the St. Charles street car line (great way to get around), visited the French Quarter (some nice architecture and restaurants, no jazz), went to the WW2 D day museum (almost brand new and very nice, probably destroyed)..... We were there for 2 full days and felt that was enough.

[TomS]

About 60% of N.O. got floooded. The French Quarter, sitting on relatively higher ground, was spared. It's in reasonably good shape. In fact, one of the bar on Bourbon Street has remained open throughout the entire crisis.

Wendy, my bride, and I spent 5 days in N.O. in Oct. '03. I've seen shots on CNN of the French Quarter showing Bourbon St. and Cafe Dumont in Jackson Square. They look just like I remember them except they are no people there.

I visited the D-Day museaum while I was there. I spent an entire day there. I went expecting to see exibits relating to the Normandy invasion. I was really surprised. It provided an total view of the war with special emphasis on all the amphibous invasions in both Europe and the Pacific. The extensive use of multi-media further enhanced the experience. It is located a few blocks from the Quarter. Hopefully, it survived with minimal damage. It is a real treasure.

When we were there, we didn't feel overly threatned by crime. We toured a couple of cemetarys and did a lot of walking. At least no more than we would be in any other large city such as Boston Maybe were were just blissfully ignorant of the local situation.

They do hose down Bourbon Street in the morning. Otherwise, the whole place would smell like a stale beer. Bourbon Street is the only place I've been where public drunkeness is not only tolerated; It's almost required. Where else, can you stand on a sidewalk and be served a mix drink over the bottom half a dutch door? If there is urine in the streets, I'd blame it on the tourists - not the local drunks.

So Arne, did you flash anyone for beads while you were down there?

-------------------

I don't want to reopen the blame/poverty/race discussion. But, I do hope the political appointees at FEMA will be replaced with ex-military people. professionals with real-world expertise in logistics and crisis-management.