Wiring order question for my plans.

[Chris C]

It's okay.............we're all friends here!

[Nitetimes]

The primary reason I got out of electrical contracting had nothing to do with getting shocked or any of the other problems mentioned, it was due TO the NEC. They got so out of hand with the regs a large percentage of which are totally ridiculous, that I finally decided it wasn't worth the aggrevation for the amount of money to be made. The odds of getting electricuted (didn't say shocked) by household current are slim at best and all the special regulations and devices will never stop stupid people from doing stupid things. Wiring isn't rocket science either although the NEC would like you to believe it is.
Use a little common sense and place your wires carefully and it will work out fine and let the NEC figure out what to do with it later. One thing to remember, you don't have to let anyone look inside you trailer, so if their nose is where it shouldn't be close the door/hatch on it.
Just my pennies worth.

[cracker39]

Powderburn, I am sure I speak for others as well when I say that we didn’t’ mean to belittle your abilities as an electrician. I apologize if I offended you. Even though we are talking tiny trailers here, those of us who will have 110/120 VAC outlets in ours should make sure we are following common sense (if not all of the codes) when wiring it. I’ve seen a lot of posts from TD builders who have wired for 110/120 VAC and none that mentioned having any electrical problems from improper wiring, but I do want to be sure I do it safely.

I’ve seen an electrical code book, or rather parts of it, and wouldn’t know how to begin interpreting all of it…not because I am stupid, but because I haven’t been trained as an electrician. I’ve done house wiring to some extent and think I know what I will be doing in my tiny trailer, but have a question or two regarding mine that you surely can answer if you will.

My trailer will have outlets for an Air Conditioner (5000BTU) that uses a standard 110/120 VAC outlet. I will have two other outlets (one in front and one in rear) for a TV and I may use either a small microwave oven, toaster oven, or coffee maker. None of these devices require more than a 15 amp circuit breaker, and I wouldn’t be using more than one “kitchen” device at a time, along with the TV and Air Conditioner. I plan to have four 15 amp circuits on breakers, using a small breaker box that holds 2 double breakers. The Air would have it’s own outlet and breaker, one breaker each for the two TV/appliance outlets, and the 4th breaker will be used to supply the power to my AC/DC power converter. The 12 VDC usage would probably not exceed 6-8 amps at any time, if that much. I plan to run 14 gauge 2+ground romex (stranded) wire from the breakers to each outlet and to the converter.

Since I don’t believe that I’d ever pull more than 15-20 amps at any time, I think that 10 gauge wire from my input source (wall plug on the outside) to the breaker box would be sufficient (about 2-3 ft in length). That is the size cable used in extension cords sold by RV dealers for 30 amp shore power connections.

Other information that might be of use is that due to the expense of AC/DC TVs, I will use a small 110/120 VAC TV through a small DC/AC inverter if we want to watch TV and don’t have shore power. That is a big savings as I can get a 400W inverter for $26 and a 13” TV with VHS that we have is rated for only 65W. A similar unit for AC and DC is around $300.

Does my wiring plan sound adequate? Did I miss anything? This information above is just for the 110/120 VAC. My overall wiring plan also includes fuse panel and ground block for the 12 VDC, a master cut-off switch for my battery, and a solenoid to automatically switch the 1/2" VDC input source to the 12V lines from the battery to the converter when 110/120 VAC power is detected.

I won't be back until Monday to see your answer, so thanks in advance.

[Joanne]

HMMMMM....Another consideration. Romex or Nomex. I found a thread on another RV site where a post stated that Romex (solid wire) was for houses where no vibration occurs and that the RV builder should use stranded wire for everything (i.e. Nomex for AC). I searched and couldn't find any other informatio to support this. Any electricians out there who can answer this? After all, all extension cords are for AC and are stranded wire...it make sense to me. And it is more flexible and easier to run the wiring.

I went down to my local trailer supply store and started looking in the electrical section. They carried wire that has two stranded conductors in a sheath. I liked this since each circuit wouldn't be two loose wires. They didn't have enough for what I needed so I asked them to order it for me. The 100' spool was cheaper than buying the amount I needed by the foot.




I don't want to join the "Great Code Debate", but there are codes developed for the boating industry that might give some guidelines for wiring moving vehicles. The boat wiring codes are geared towards a salt water environment so my be overkill for a tear. Still, there might be some good general information.

------------------------------------
American Boat and Yacht Council (ABYC) . Standards and Recommended Practices for Small Craft. E-8 AC Electrical Systems E-9 DC Electrical Systems. These are voluntary standards and recommendations that are widely used by many US sailing and power boat builders and electrical professionals. They cover all areas of boat construction and systems.

The United States Coast Guard. Title 33, CFR 183 These contain mandatory requirements for electrical systems on boats.

NMEA Installation Standards This is a new set of wiring recommendations recently released by the NMEA that are stated as complimentary to the ABYC Recommendations, with an electronics installation bias. These apply to sailing and motor boats.

----------------------------

Joanne

[Joanne]

Joanne

Two wire would be great for the 12volt system but,for the 110 volt side,you will need 3 strand wire.

I was getting ready to post some drawings I made on this subject and this was one of the toppics in my drawings.The ground wire(third strand) is the most important wire in a 110 volt electrical system.Thats the one wire that protects us from being zortched.

I guess I forgot to mention that my trailer is 12v ONLY. I so rarely camp in places that have 110v (once in the last three years), I just can't justify adding it.

Joanne

[Dee Bee]

Well my TD is already built and on the road.

I consulted with a local electrician asking him to review what I had done with my AC hook up. He said it was OK. This was not necessarily an offical endorsement that I was strickly up to code. But an assurance that I would not kill myself or burn the trailer in an electrical fire.

My web page is found here
http://www.nfdc.net/home/cbdb/Micro%20CamperElectric.htm

You can see that I included electrical instalations as I went along. I decided I would not install any wire runs in the walls and have all of them in the ceiling. I made this choice so that I could mount things on the interior walls without fear of hitting a wire. I knew that once the outter skin was on the wires for the DC system would be sealed in the ceiling. So far so good. The AC system is still accessable through what I call the electrical chase.

I hope What I did helps others. Comments, especially about safety welcome here.

DEE BEE

[cracker39]

Dee Bee, I am in the electrics planning phase right now. Can you tell me where you got your electrical components such as the unit with the meter and the fuse block? I like the look of your setup. I can buy generic fuse and negative terminal blocks and wiring in auto parts stores, but that is about all of the DC electrics that I can fine there.

My planned wiring is about like yours, but isn't final yet. I'm still looking for sources and ideas.

[Dee Bee]

Dee Bee, I am in the electrics planning phase right now. Can you tell me where you got your electrical components such as the unit with the meter and the fuse block? I like the look of your setup. I can buy generic fuse and negative terminal blocks and wiring in auto parts stores, but that is about all of the DC electrics that I can fine there.

My planned wiring is about like yours, but isn't final yet. I'm still looking for sources and ideas.

Hi Cracker39

Well here is most of the info

http://www.nfdc.net/home/cbdb/12%20v%20DC%20Panel%20Meter.htm
I built the panel meter as explained above. I'm not an electritian so if I could do it I think just about any one could give it a try. I know that there are other "simple" electrical systems posted on this web. They are made out of extention cords, and portable GFI outlets with a power strip plugged in. I'm sure they would work... To each his/her own. I just didn't want loose power cords at my feet inside or outside the TD.


Installed


Have fun and be safe

DEE BEE

[cracker39]

Dee Bee, the info on your site will be helpful. I couldn't get the site for Mark Nemeth to load, usind either Exporer or Firefox. If you know of any other link to his site, please let me know as I'd like to see it.

[Chris C]

Dale, it came right up for me and I'm using Explorer.

[Dee Bee]

Dee Bee, the info on your site will be helpful. I couldn't get the site for Mark Nemeth to load, usind either Exporer or Firefox. If you know of any other link to his site, please let me know as I'd like to see it.

Tonight I couldn't get it to log on either... Do a google search on "12 volt Side of Life" for a link

Here is another source of electrical info that was helpful to me
http://www.phrannie.org/battery.html

Dee Bee

[mikeschn]

You can also look at the cached version...

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:_GYw ... en&start=1

http://66.102.7.104/search?q=cache:S256 ... en&start=2

Mike...

[cracker39]

Thanks...That worked for part 1. How do you access the cached info? Can I get Part 2 the same way?

[cracker39]

never mind...i see how now...thanks

[Dee Bee]

Dee Bee, the info on your site will be helpful. I couldn't get the site for Mark Nemeth to load, usind either Exporer or Firefox. If you know of any other link to his site, please let me know as I'd like to see it.

Tonight I couldn't get it to log on either... Do a google search on "12 volt Side of Life" for a link

http://www.ccis.com/home/mnemeth/12volt/12volt.htm

This is the web link that works

Dee Bee