Pop-up camper frame...is it too heavy to start

[NismoGriff]

I recently purchased a Coleman Redwood pop-up because the $100 price tag was too good to pass up and I have been wanting to start a TD build.

I removed the camper and the leftover frame is 6'3" wide by 7' long and when I had it weighed to put plates on it, it came in at 350lbs The camper floor is still on the trailer and it appears to be a somewhat wet piece of 3/4" pressed wood, so I am sure that adds some weight to it. I do want to extend the trailer to 8' or possibly 9'. My concern is my tow vehicle has a 1500lb towing capacity and I don't want to exceed it. I would like to build a tear with insulated walls, an A/C unit, etc... My question is, do any of you experienced builders think this frame is too heavy to start out with? The centerline of the axle is about 35" from the rear of the trailer, so I was thinking of adding the additional 1' (if I go for 8' total length) to the forward part of the trailer and then extending the tongue to give more clearance and strengthen it up. The wheels will most likely be covered by the body of the tear as they positioned inside the outside rail of the frame. I will probably do a cutout and a minor flare for character.

So basically I would like to hear some thoughts on the starting weight and the ideas of adding length to the trailer, keeping in mind my 1500lb towing capacity. Ideally, I would like to end up with a TD that weight no more than 1200 lbs.

Here are some shots of the trailer:

[Boodro]

Hi , I used an old popup that looks a lot like yours. I stripped the floor off & cleaned & painted the frame, I reused the floor as it was a full 1 inch plywood in great shape. The one thing I did that I wish I had not was I cut the floor down to 48 inches wide so the wheels were on the outside of the body. I wish I had made it 5 feet wide instead. I used the full length it is 12feet long, I have lots of storage that way. I cut the steel frame down to 48 inches to. I am happy with my TD as it is only me that goes camping. I have it for sale right now as I want to build a weekender. Good luck with your build!

Check out my album pics!

[bobhenry]

Get a cut off wheel and a little grinder or the sawsall and lose the popup crank and channel piece it runs in. Removal of the intermediate floor supports would give you the option for under the floor storage. I would rely on your new wood frame to cantaliever 1 foot front and back now making you 6x9. 1x4 framing and a 1/4" exterior and interion skin and you will have little trouble staying within your weight goal.

Boodro might be right in that if you want old school tear 10 cuts and you have a wheels out frame. Warm up the sawsall and stock up on metal cutting blades its surgery time.

Good luck and send us some more pics.

[NismoGriff]

Hi , I used an old popup that looks a lot like yours. I stripped the floor off & cleaned & painted the frame, I reused the floor as it was a full 1 inch plywood in great shape. The one thing I did that I wish I had not was I cut the floor down to 48 inches wide so the wheels were on the outside of the body. I wish I had made it 5 feet wide instead. I used the full length it is 12feet long, I have lots of storage that way. I cut the steel frame down to 48 inches to. I am happy with my TD as it is only me that goes camping. I have it for sale right now as I want to build a weekender. Good luck with your build!

Check out my album pics!

My floor is 3/4" in some places and 1" in others becuase it has been getting wet. On top of that, it had an odor of cat urine So it's gotta go. I was considering narrowing it, but I think I have my mind set on keeping it wide and the wheels under it. I like the idea of fenders, but I like the idea of more width better.

Get a cut off wheel and a little grinder or the sawsall and lose the popup crank and channel piece it runs in. Removal of the intermediate floor supports would give you the option for under the floor storage. I would rely on your new wood frame to cantaliever 1 foot front and back now making you 6x9. 1x4 framing and a 1/4" exterior and interion skin and you will have little trouble staying within your weight goal.

Yes, I had every intention of removing the crank. Removal or relocation of at least one of the floor supports was planned as I want to do the recessed floor/pop-up table option. What dimension of floor framing do you feel would support the cantilever of 1 foot on either end of the frame? It's an interesting idea, but I am not sure I could rest easy knowing I did it that way

[bobhenry]

If you stop and think the entire wall is a truss. Any load placed anywhere on the side will transfer thru the inner and outer skin and help carry the point load. Furthermore if the wall stud bays are filled with foam board this will add additional resistance to racking or distortion of the wall. I just started " Barn to be wild " It will be a to scale gambrel barn. Not real aerodynamic but it will get a reaction. I am using a single bottom plate 16" on center studded wall . All the plates and studs are ripped 2x4 cut to 2 1/2 inches wide I am cantilivering 2' in the front but remember the tongue can offer some support for this cantiliver. I went with the thicker walls after surviving a couple of below zero shivarees. This , combined with the extreme hassle of getting electric wiring and boxes in a sandwiched wall with only a 3/4" void. I will also be using let in sidewall bracing to reinforce and triangulate to allow for wind shear for the at highway speed winds.

[teardrop_focus]

Welcome to the forum, NismoGriff.

Pop-up camper frame...is it too heavy to start [?]

Yes.

It's almost shocking to discover how strong a plywood box can be... and how little chassis a teardrop really needs.

Unless the trailer floor needs to support the walking weight of many people, it can be simply 3/4 ply on top of a torsion axle tube welded to a single steel hitch tongue.

An oversimplification? One might think so, but, not really.




I present you with food for thought...

[NismoGriff]

If you stop and think the entire wall is a truss. Any load placed anywhere on the side will transfer thru the inner and outer skin and help carry the point load. Furthermore if the wall stud bays are filled with foam board this will add additional resistance to racking or distortion of the wall.

Ok, I did a little reading on cantilever style construction and I can see how it would be ok, bu I am still not sure if could get past it in my mind. I guess I have to realize not all things have to be built like a sherman tank. If I cantilever a foot front and rear, and the floors frame is only built with 1x2, do you think it will support the weight of the galley without sagging over time? I guess realistically, most of the weight of the galley will still be supported by part of the actual frame.

Yes.

It's almost shocking to discover how strong a plywood box can be... and how little chassis a teardrop really needs.

Unless the trailer floor needs to support the walking weight of many people, it can be simply 3/4 ply on top of a torsion axle tube welded to a single steel hitch tongue.

An oversimplification? One might think so, but, not really.


I present you with food for thought...

Yes, I realize the frame that I have picked may be overkill, but my question really was can I build the TD with that as a starting point and realistically stay within my tow vehicles capabilities. I tend to do things in an overkill fashion....call it OCD or whatever, and I will have peace of mind knowing it will be well supported. I will have to be realistic when building and keep in mind that as I stated above, it won't need to be built like a sherman tank.

I think the good thing about not starting this build right away with the trailer that I currently have is, it gives me time to look over other builds, pick particular features I would like to incorporate and use other people's experience's to hopefully save myself some headache and heartache. I am so ready to get started though.

[bobhenry]

What is the actual floor 3/4 plywood, 1/2 plywood ??? This offers some support to a cantaliver. Is the wall a sandwich of 1x and 1/4' face inside and out if so a 1x4 placed on edge resting on the floor in the wall adds tremendous strength to the floor. It is the sum of all parts not just any one.

[teardrop_focus]

Yes, I realize the frame that I have picked may be overkill, but my question really was can I build the TD with that as a starting point and realistically stay within my tow vehicles capabilities. I tend to do things in an overkill fashion....call it OCD or whatever, and I will have peace of mind knowing it will be well supported. I will have to be realistic when building and keep in mind that as I stated above, it won't need to be built like a sherman tank.

No one here has OCD... I don't know what you're talking about...

Forgive me if my reply seemed short... I had to get somewhere but couldn't drag my arse away from this forum! Hahaha... my apologies. Your attention to detail will serve you well in your build, most definately.

One thing that I failed to mention in my first reply was how surprised (and secretly delighted) I was at the majority response to a thread here titled something like, "If you had to do it over... what would you change"... and the majority of the people replying said, "I'd build my teardrop smaller and lighter".

Yes, you can build your TD with that trailer as your starting point and stay within your tv's capabilities... if you remove at least 50% of the steel on that thing. :-)~

I've learned here that, pound for pound, plywood is stronger than steel, and that when any sheet material (plywood, aluminum, carbon fibre cloth, etc) is constructed in what's known as a 'monocoque', or, unitbody, then a frame becomes almost a redundancy... almost... and again, especially if a bunch of people are not literally walking or standing on the teardrop's floor. As Bob has mentioned, the sides of the teardrop will support your galley floor around the floor's edges, for example, and that the floor only needs, if anything, a support somewhere in the middle of it's expanse... The bulkhead between the galley and the cabin also greatly aids with vertical support of the floor.

I think the good thing about not starting this build right away with the trailer that I currently have is, it gives me time to look over other builds, pick particular features I would like to incorporate and use other people's experience's to hopefully save myself some headache and heartache.

Truer words are rarely spoken, sir. This is one of the marvelous things about the internet and this great forum in particular... the abiltity and the convenience, aye, the miracle of being able to see hundreds of trailers, styles, and build projects from start to finish... Those of us who're still designing our trailers are indebted to every single teardrop owner and builder whose trailers we have seen online and in person, whether they realize it or not...

I am so ready to get started though.

The wait is agonizing, I tell you!



One thing that will help you in the interim is sketching your tear's profile (if you haven't already)... I've used graph/grid paper that includes one-inch grid lines. I don't know what scale that winds up being... maybe 1/12th? D'oh! It's just a bit cheaper and less time consuming than a full-sized mockup at this point.

Thanks for listening, and may your build go smoothly!

[NismoGriff]

What is the actual floor 3/4 plywood, 1/2 plywood ??? This offers some support to a cantaliver. Is the wall a sandwich of 1x and 1/4' face inside and out if so a 1x4 placed on edge resting on the floor in the wall adds tremendous strength to the floor. It is the sum of all parts not just any one.

I don't plan on using that existing floor......it's NASTY. What I have read is to use 1/2" fir plywood. I want to do insulated walls and the 1/4" inner and outer skin with either 1x4 or possibly 2x2 internal framing. I guess I am not sure how the 1x4 placed on it's edge resting on the floor adds strength to the floor.....unless I am visualizing it differently than you intend. Please....more explanation or a link to something that can help me visualize properly.

[NismoGriff]

No one here has OCD... I don't know what you're talking about...

Forgive me if my reply seemed short... I had to get somewhere but couldn't drag my arse away from this forum! Hahaha... my apologies. Your attention to detail will serve you well in your build, most definately.

I didn't think your reply was short and no offense was taken really. I just hope my attention to detail doesn't prevent me from completing the task at hand. Sometimes I debate with myself for so long on how to do something properly that I don't get anything done

One thing that I failed to mention in my first reply was how surprised (and secretly delighted) I was at the majority response to a thread here titled something like, "If you had to do it over... what would you change"... and the majority of the people replying said, "I'd build my teardrop smaller and lighter".

I definately would like to keep the build light, but have plenty of room.

Yes, you can build your TD with that trailer as your starting point and stay within your tv's capabilities... if you remove at least 50% of the steel on that thing. :-)~

The parts of the trailer that are outside of the main frame rails are not that heavy a gauge of steel. They are not paper thin, but are not nearly as heavy as the main two rails that run from the tongue to the back.

I've learned here that, pound for pound, plywood is stronger than steel, and that when any sheet material (plywood, aluminum, carbon fibre cloth, etc) is constructed in what's known as a 'monocoque', or, unitbody, then a frame becomes almost a redundancy... almost... and again, especially if a bunch of people are not literally walking or standing on the teardrop's floor. As Bob has mentioned, the sides of the teardrop will support your galley floor around the floor's edges, for example, and that the floor only needs, if anything, a support somewhere in the middle of it's expanse... The bulkhead between the galley and the cabin also greatly aids with vertical support of the floor.

Again.....I am not clear on home something sitting on top of something can "support" what it's sitting on.

One thing that will help you in the interim is sketching your tear's profile (if you haven't already)... I've used graph/grid paper that includes one-inch grid lines. I don't know what scale that winds up being... maybe 1/12th? D'oh! It's just a bit cheaper and less time consuming than a full-sized mockup at this point.

My artistic skills are very poor, however, I have sketched out a profile or two. I am considering the 6x8 or 6x9, but I am not sure how tall yet. I would like to be able to do the sunken floor/dining table area with plenty of head room while sitting down. I am not sure what dimensions are going to make the trailer look proportionally correct

Thanks for listening, and may your build go smoothly!

Thanks for the help and words of encouragement!!

[bobhenry]

I guess I am not sure how the 1x4 placed on it's edge resting on the floor adds strength to the floor.....unless I am visualizing it differently than you intend. Please....more explanation or a link to something that can help me visualize properly.

Here is my raw wall !



Notice the 1x4 sets ON the floor. If this were cantilivered it would help to resist the bending of your floor supports at the outermost point of the cantiliever. My osb sidewalls are screwed into a 2x4 curb that floated with the floor so without the 1x4 the only thing that would be holding up my walls would be the screws that go thru the floor and into the 2x4 halo.
Fasteners are much stronger in shear than in tension. If you look in my album pages 20-21 may be of interest to you.



Hell I didn't remember , it appears I have a mini cantilever of my own. The hatch bottom closes it off.

See how the 1x4 works to help carry the wall ?

[teardrop_focus]

teardrop_focus

As Bob has mentioned, the sides of the teardrop will support your galley floor around the floor's edges, for example, and that the floor only needs, if anything, a support somewhere in the middle of it's expanse... The bulkhead between the galley and the cabin also greatly aids with vertical support of the floor.

NismoGriff

Again.....I am not clear on home something sitting on top of something can "support" what it's sitting on.

Yeah. I was wondering about how that came out. Hahaha... Think of it this way (and remember, a wood joint glued together is stronger than the wood around it)...

Where the trailer chassis may provide lateral or longitudinal support of the floor in compression, that "bulkhead" by virtue of it's being bonded to the tear's sidewalls support the floor (that it is glued to) in tension, much like, say, a suspension bridge.

That's enough for now, save to say that the teardrop, when made of decent-quality plywood becomes a structure unto itself, and is very strong in beam and torsion. Perhaps our resident engineer Andrew will chime in with an educated explanation.

As Bob Henry said earlier, "It is the sum of all parts not just any one [part]".

[del]

Hey this looks familiar.

The mechanism that puts the pop up is surprisingly heavy. Does it have brakes? Mine does, remember these were built to tow behind a small car. As for the floor you will not stand on it, once built your weight will be put on the floor through a mattress. Think light. My other tear has 3/8 ply on top, 1by ripped to 1.5 wide standing on its end, and 1/8 ply on the bottom. Still holding up fine, with close to 20,000 miles on it. Next time I would use 1/4 ply on top.

hope this helps del

[del]

One question if I may, where is the vin number on the frame?

del