vertical sleep space - minimum?

[EffieRover]

Did a full-sized version of my profile on rosin paper and realized the upper bunk is REALLY close to the ceiling. I need to bring that down, which means lowering the windows and probably the bunkette (benches). Question is - how much?

Looked at plans in the design library that include bunks - saw the 2+2 is something just under 24" each bunk, but recommends going to 5' for something just under 30" each. Campster doesn't have specifics, but doesn't look realistic for anything but a really small child, anyway. I'm hoping this camper will last into the teens.

Upper bunk is 75x56 to accommodate two children, average height (it sits under a curve) from bunk surface to ceiling is 20 1/2" -- I think not enough. But how much is enough?

[S. Heisley]

I once took a tour of a submarine. In it, the bunk areas were extremely small. We were told that the sailors had to be tested to see if they could withstand that small of a space.

75x56" is more than enough for two kids and is sufficient for most adults. As far as the height, when one plans a banquet, each seating at the table allows a minimum of 18" elbow/shoulder room, so it's probably enough. However, it would probably depend on whether your family has a problem with being contained beneath that low of a ceiling.

Maybe you could get a couple boxes or some stacked books with some flat cardboard over top and set it up on the floor so that you can mimic the ceiling height over the head and shoulder areas of your kids. (You might be able to just use one large, open-end box to do this.) Then, try it yourself and ask the kids to try it to see how they feel about it. Lay on your back, looking up and also on your side, looking at a closed end, so you can get the feeling of near-complete closure and of the smallness plus be able to check shoulder and arm comfort. This is probably the most important test you can do.

You may also find that being able to vent warm, moist human breath is important. You may want to add a small crank-open window or a vent up in that area. The kids would probably love having their own little window!
Caution: Too much light near children's eyes may guarantee early morning wake-ups!

[angib]

It's my experience that young children will happily sleep in places no adult would go near.

The bunks Sharon saw would have about 24" between each - so fitting three high in the standing headroom of a sub. This is just acceptable, though you have to be mighty fit to be able to slot yourself into the upper bunks - jumping up and simultaneously fitting in a shallow height is very hard, unless you learnt to do Fosbury Flops.

So 20-1/2" for kids is OK, though you might want to test that your particular children think it's 'fun' and not 'scary' to fit into a space like that.

Andrew

PS The bunks Sharon saw were probably "hot bunks" - there were fewer of them than there were sailors on board, so you had to share with someone on another watch and when you go into the bunk it would still be hot from the other guy getting out.....

[DrCrash]

You cannot sit up in them. Alot of guys could not roll over in them.
We called it " Hot racking" Andrew is right it would be warm from the guy before you. On boomers or Balistic misle subs , every one had there own rack. I was on a fast atack out of San Diego.

[kennyrayandersen]

You may also find that being able to vent warm, moist human breath is important. You may want to add a small crank-open window or a vent up in that area. The kids would probably love having their own little window!
Caution: Too much light near children's eyes may guarantee early morning wake-ups!

This is the one that would concern me as well. If you mounted the roof fan above the inside bunk that might help – it does sound pretty tight – I would think the limitation should be shoulder width plus a few inches so that at least someone could roll over. Small kids are more flexible, but you mentioned using it into their teen years – if that’s the case 24 in apiece seems like it would be near the minimum.

[EffieRover]

Maybe you could get a couple boxes or some stacked books with some flat cardboard over top and set it up on the floor so that you can mimic the ceiling height over the head and shoulder areas of your kids.

I like that idea. Will do. Although I think also that I'll increase the space to 24" at least and also try it myself to mimic teen sizes.

You may also find that being able to vent warm, moist human breath is important.

The roof vent is not far off the bed, as in just to one side of it. But I was considering giving the kids a small window or enlarging the vent (like using a truck moonroof or something), just for fun.

Caution: Too much light near children's eyes may guarantee early morning wake-ups!

My youngest wakes between 6:45 and 7:15. Weekdays, weekends, mornings after very, VERY late bedtimes and even when sick. I don't think I can do much more damage.

Thanks again. I'm trying to do lots of research so as not to ask a ton of questions ... some just don't seem to have ready answers.

[S. Heisley]

Hot racking or Hot bunks, huh? Yup! ...Stacked in threes and shared.

Not being able to sit up is a good point. A young child might be able to but a teen probably couldn't. Teens usually don't want to sleep with Mom and Dad. You'll probably have to get them their own tent when they get that old anyway.

Andrew: Can you (or someone) explain how to do the "Fosbury Flop"? Is it a dive, head first? Knowing that might help EffieRover with the final plan.... Besides, inquiring minds want to know!

Effie Rover:
See http://tnttt.com/album_ ... c_id=24765

Is that where your height idea came from? Would the added center dip of this type of canvas bunk be of any added value? I noticed this bunk gives a 20.5 ceiling height to bunk bar frame clearance - not to the canvas center. So, I would imagine you actually get a little more height with that.

Another thought:
How about a small, rectangular lifting roof section just over the bunk bed? That might give you what you need. You could put a small vent or venting plastic or shatter-proof window in the lifting sides' portion. A lifting strip/section probably wouldn't add that much weight or be that hard to do. It would be like a look-out and the kids would love it, probably well into the teen years! Remember the bunk seats that were in the old train cabooses? The roof section over those wasn't folding; but, that's kind of the idea. George Teague or Andrew would have a plan for this type of lifting roof and you might be able to modify/shrink that down.

…Or, a trolley roof?

See topic: ‘How to do a trolley top…at least this is how I did it’, by Doug Hodder, in this forum.
(http://tnttt.com/viewto ... &highlight =)

Okay, I'll stop here, before I drive you crazy.

[EffieRover]

No I hadn't seen that picture ... very interesting. I was just drawing from the floor up and fitting into the profile of a Shasta Compact, rounded ... oh, fudge. Here:



Just keep in mind that there are lots of hen scratches on this and it has changed several times. Unfortunately, my current drawing is about 7' by 11' and is drawn on rosin paper taped to my living room floor. Can't exactly get that in my scanner.

But if you look at the back where it says 'flat 4 window' there's a wood cross-beam just above there. That beam is to support the kids' bunk. The cross-beam below it supports the window and ledger for the dresser and the cross-beam closest to the floor supports the banquette/queen bed. I think I have to move all three down or change the window size (something I'm not keen on as I've already located cheap windows 18x30).

The drawing is also backwards ... that's typical of the way I do things

[tinksdad]

It's not backwards, it's from the inside looking out!!!

[EffieRover]

It's not backwards, it's from the inside looking out!!!

That's the kind of stuff I keep telling my dad & husband! (both shaking their heads at the size of what I'm trying to do)

Anyway, thought I'd post this for future searches ... just measured my kids' bunkbed. (Duh!) From the top of the mattress to the underside of the top bunk is 21" almost exact. We have a thicker mattress than what would usually be put on a bunkbed, so I'm guessing it's designed to be a little closer to that 24" number. At any rate, both girls are comfy sleeping on it and my hubby and I have even crawled in on nightmare nights. I guess 3-5" lower than my original drawing (to accommodate a foam pad) will be fine.

Onward to doing the floorplan on the living room floor ...

[S. Heisley]

Thanks for the picy of the drawing!

One idea that I can see is, if you make your vent area more flat and start your slant downwards after that point, you might buy yourself a little extra space at the bunk-entry point, which is where you need it the most. Once the first child is in the bunk, they can scoot, slide, or roll to/from the back and still be comfortable. Also, it should make your vent easier to install and I don't think it will hurt the design much. It probably won't even be noticeable to the untrained eye.

But, I had a thought with your full-sized bunk idea: If the one in the back has to go to the bathroom, the one in the front will probably have to get out to let the one in the back out. The first time that happens, you'll hear a lot of belly-aching from both and everyone will be awakened! However, while the kids are still young, they can probably sleep across the bed platform, front to back within the 56" width, instead of side to side.

The kid in me still wants to see a little window on the side where the head of the 'upstairs' bunks would be, so that a person could lay on their stomach and look out at the bear that's raiding the neighbor's campground!

[angib]

Drifting some way off topic......

I shouldn't have to explain to Merkans who Fosbury was!



Doing the Fosbury Flop

Andrew

[EffieRover]

S Heisley, yes, yes, eh, sorta, yes. Points taken. We don't expect anyone to be able to sit up in this bunk and it'll probably be an issue for bathroom trips, but we try to limit those anyway ... we still have one who doesn't always wake up.

angib, there's no way I want my kids doing that in the trailer! Over the trailer, fine, but not in it

[Forrest747]

I am building what i call the loft. it will be enough for one kid to sleep up there. I am thinking it will be 20 to 22 inches up there. just for sleeping. i bought some round windows and the idea of teh bear portal is an idea i am starting to grow fond of.

[jmtk]

Hi Effie,

Here's a pic of our son's bunk with annotations showing its dimensions. Our son is rapidly closing in on 9 yrs old now and is 53" tall. He can't sit up in the bunk any more without slouching, but it doesn't faze him at all. He still loves it. Notice that the bunk sags about 4" below the support dowels, so his head room varies from about 24 to 20" due to the slope of the teardrop ceiling.

Jeanette