GFI clicking off when I plug my Camper in????

[wlooper89]

With my limited expertise gained at the Holiday Inn Express , I am thinking the bonding of neutral to ground where the power enters the residence does not much affect anything downstream of the GFCI. The grounding is often accomplished by a rod driven into the ground. Since the earth does not conduct electricity all that well only a little bit of current flows back to a similar rod in the ground at the power company transformer. So the current is not lost, just recycled. The GFCI is only looking at things on the load side or downstream.

The reason for bonding to ground is so that appliances with faulty wiring, for example a toaster, will not shock a person touching it as the current on the neutral side has bled away. The hot side is controlled by the on-off switch.

I hope that my limited understanding of this subject can shed some light. If others can illuminate it further I would like to learn more.

Bill

[Larwyn]

I'll try pluging into anoughter GFI today and see if it works. And also check for a loose connection to my frame grounding.
If I had a reversed neautral at an outlet would it still trip with all the breakers off? Thanks for all of your help.

If it is tripping with all the breakers off, you either have something wired in before the breakers, you have a sneak circuit (or short) somewhere, or you have a bad GFI. Even though a GFI is not an overcurrent device it does sense current in order to determine that there is an imbalance. Somehow it is sensing more current on one hot/neutral leg than the other (the ground conductor is not used in the GFI's trip circuit). In a properly wired GFI the neutral and ground current would sum to equal the current in the hot conductor, if the ground current exceeds a very low threshold, the the neutral current will have dropped below trip level and the GFI will trip.

Theoretically, if all the breakers are off, the GFI would see nothing, it would be as if nothing was plugged in. There has to be something causing a current flow in order for the GFI to operate. However I once had a GFI outlet on the outside of a house that tripped every time it rained, with nothing plugged into it, there was nothing hardwired downstream of the GFI, moisture inside the GFI itself had to be causing the trip. I first put a new "weather proof" cover on it, but did not solve the problem until I replaced the GFI itself.

In your case I would check everything between the GFI and the breaker box on the trailer. Including wire, plugs, receptacles, the inlet, etc.

[Larwyn]

The reason for bonding to ground is so that appliances with faulty wiring, for example a toaster, will not shock a person touching it as the current on the neutral side has bled away. The hot side is controlled by the on-off switch.

Bill

That toaster is a good example of why the GFI's are designed to operate off of an imbalance rather than actually sensing ground current. If the case of that toaster were to become electrically hot due to an internal short and there is no third (ground) conductor (most toasters only have a 2 wire cord), the breaker would not trip. The GFI would only trip after something comes into contact with the case, providing an alternative current path which in turn causes there to be less return than supply current at the GFI so it trips. So the GFI protects, even when the ground conductor is not present.

[bobhenry]

Will we ever know :roll:

Tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode of " As the GFI trips"

[bobhenry]

Must have been out of town on the 4th. We will have to wait to find out what the culprit was I guess.

[madprinter]

Sorry it took me so long to get back with everyone. Been working and working
Well I tryed anoughter GFI, same thing. It tripped. Tryed anoughter cord plugged to my RV cord, it tripped. Took a break and decided to touch up on some painting on my frame with a spray can. While laying on the ground I touched the frame and felt a shock. My camper was plugged into an old two wire cord, no ground plug. I guess I'm lucky the ground was dry. My box is grounded to the frame. The frame and wall supports are all metal and the box is screwed to a metal wall support. It will still trip the GFI with the breakers cut off in the box, So I'm thinking I have the box wired wrong??? I added a ground bar since it was a subpanel. I put a jumper between both the hot lugs . all ground wires are run to the ground bar. White wires to the neutral bar and black wires to the breakers??? What could be wrong?? Thanks for all the replys so far. William

[bobhenry]

Go get a good 3 wire extention cord. Then go get the tester bill showed you in post #4. Plug in the cord and insert the tester into one of your duplex plugs. It will tell you exactly what is wrong. Could you have screwed yourself. OOPS let me digress could you have ran a screw thru a hot wire during the build?

[Miriam C.]

Sorry it took me so long to get back with everyone. Been working and working
Well I tryed anoughter GFI, same thing. It tripped. Tryed anoughter cord plugged to my RV cord, it tripped. Took a break and decided to touch up on some painting on my frame with a spray can. While laying on the ground I touched the frame and felt a shock. My camper was plugged into an old two wire cord, no ground plug. I guess I'm lucky the ground was dry. My box is grounded to the frame. The frame and wall supports are all metal and the box is screwed to a metal wall support. It will still trip the GFI with the breakers cut off in the box, So I'm thinking I have the box wired wrong??? I added a ground bar since it was a subpanel. I put a jumper between both the hot lugs . all ground wires are run to the ground bar. White wires to the neutral bar and black wires to the breakers??? What could be wrong?? Thanks for all the replys so far. William

If the frame is shocking you ---- get that ground wire off, trace it and find out why/if it is hot. Don't plug up till you know again.

Oh yeah and get a 3 wire cord for outdoor use. The third is your ground Your panel is not bonded to the ground without it

Be sure you have the new ground bar connected to the correct screw in your inlet too...........

[wlooper89]

I would bet on a short between primary and ground or if there is something powered in the trailer, I think it might also be between neutral and ground. Ground in this case being the trailer frame and associated metal things since the AC ground wire is connected to it.

I would get a volt-ohm meter or plug-in circuit tester, or preferably both. With the trailer unpluged and, using the meter touch one probe to hot and the other to trailer ground. They should not be connected. Same with neutral to ground. If one or the other is grounded it will let you know where to start looking.

The little circuit tester plugs into an AC outlet and is used with the trailer powered. You can try it in the house first to see what the normal indication looks like. You might have to use a non-GFI outlet to get power to the trailer, though I am reluctant to suggest that. If you do be careful not to touch anything metal on the trailer while power is connected. Various combinations of three LED lights on the tester can help diagnose the problem. Unfortunately these things can be difficult to track down even with the help of the meter and/or tester. If you find a short between hot or neutral and ground, perhaps the individual wires can be isolated somehow. Maybe disconnect wires one at a time at the breaker box to see if that individual wire is grounded, using the meter.

Good luck finding the problem.

Bill

[bobhenry]

Will we ever know :roll:

Tune in tomorrow for another exciting episode of " As the GFI trips"

Will the madprinter survive his near death electrocution.

Will the culprit ever be found !

Tune in tomorrow for yet another exciting episode of " As the GFI trips "

[wlooper89]

Another good precaution, especially with a lot of metal around the trailer electrical system, is to have a GFCI in the trailer right after the power inlet. One reason for this is that most campground power pedestals do not have a GFCI, just a circuit breaker.

With the short to ground you seem to have, it may not be apparent immediately without a GFCI. But if one touches the trailer metal while standing on wet ground it could shock the person. With your own GFCI installed it will trip right away if there is a short to ground (ground fault) and not shock the person touching the trailer. Home Depot and Lowe's sell the 20 Amp GFCI’s for about $10. They come either plain or with outlets. I use the plain type before my circuit breakers. They are sold with either 15A or 20A rating. This link is a photo of a plain one.
http://tnttt.com/album_ ... c_id=52385

Bill

[jeep_bluetj]

#1: I vote for the "screw thru the wire" problem.

#2: (And for EVERYBODY) At the time the 2nd GFI trips, that's the time you know something's seriously wrong. That moment is a really bad point in time to plug something into a non-GFI outlet. The GFI was doing it's job, saving your butt.

The toaster is a great example.

Lets say I plug in a faulty toaster (Hot shorted to case)

Just mopped the floor (tile), floor is wet. Oh, and I just got out of the shower, oh, and it's _really_ humid, so I'm sweating too.

Now that toaster'll make toast fine, as I pushed down on the plastic handle.

Now I grab the metal case. I'm a pretty dang good short to ground, being all wet and whatnot. The gfi pops. At this point I'm at worst mildly annoyed at my failure to create toast. If I reset it, and touch the case again, it'll pop again. No toast for me, but I know somethings wrong.

But if I _didn't_ have a GFI, it'd be a major different story. There's a dang good chance that more than 30mA could have went right through me in this case. 30+ mA of current across your chest has very bad effects, death being one of them.

When a GFI pops, sure -- plug into another one to check the GFI -- they _do_ go bad. When the 2nd one pops? You've got a problem.

[Miriam C.]

Ok everyone reread your posts.

GFCI after the panel in the TD to protect all circuits down stream. I left it off my airconditioner.

With no grounded drop cord you have no ground. With no ground the GFCI will trip. KISS try the cord first

Worry about screws if something if that fails. And get some wood behind that panel.

[wlooper89]

I would put the GFCI even before the CB panel. The sooner the better although after is good too. I have been thoroughly trained by staying at the Holiday Inn Express.

Bill

[Miriam C.]

I would put the GFCI even before the CB panel. The sooner the better although after is good too. I have been thoroughly trained by staying at the Holiday Inn Express.

Bill

I have just got to ask why? Seriously I really would love to know. I stayed at the motel 6