A question about tongue weight....

[retnavycpo]

I'm sure you've thought about it but what about upgrading the suspension to handle full hitch weight. I believe one of the reasons the factory rating is only 100 pounds is that most American vehicles tend to have soft suspension for a smoother ride. While your HHR sits level when not moving, on the road bumps could bottom out the springs and that's never a good thing. Helper springs, heavy duty shocks and whatever suspension toys are available for the HHR should be able to improve things to the hitch limit of 200. It would be much easier to reduce the tongue weight 40 than 140 pounds.

I will look into that, thanks. I will say this, the trip down from Michigan was fine. Only problem I had was the condition of the roads through Cincinnati, which was awful. But my car never bottomed out, or anything. It rides the same with or without the trailer attached.

Pete

[retnavycpo]

I don't know why I didn't think of it before now, but I posted questions about fixing this problem on the Chevy HHR forum I belong to. Those folks know everything about performance modifications to the HHR. If anyone will know, it will be them.

When I get some answers, I will let y'all know!

Pete

[retnavycpo]

Got a reply from that forum already.

The first suggestion is to install rear air bag suspension kit.

Looks like about 600 bucks, just for the parts.....

Might be an option.

Pete

[madjack]

Got a reply from that forum already.

The first suggestion is to install rear air bag suspension kit.

Looks like about 600 bucks, just for the parts.....

Might be an option.

Pete

...keep looking Pete, there are other "lift/helper" options that less expensive and just as effective, these include a set of helper springs(for leaf springs) and air shocks amongst others.........

madjack

[retnavycpo]

Oh yes! If I haven't learned anything else, I try my best to research all options before acting!

Pete

[retnavycpo]

This looks interesting:

http://mrtrailer.com/stinger.htm

Although this particular product is for a 2" receiver. Mine is a 1". I know there are adapters available, but don't know if that would be safe. But I like this idea.

UPDATE: I called the manufacturer of the Stinger. Won't work on a vehicle with less than 13" clearance from ground to bottom of receiver. I only have about 8.5" Oh well, it was a thought...........

Pete

[CPlater]

There has to be reasonable options for less than $600. I did my Colorado for less than half that using a Timbren product but I think they only do trucks. I would think something on the order of better bump stops and maybe stiffer shocks would get you there without breaking the budget.

[retnavycpo]

There has to be reasonable options for less than $600. I did my Colorado for less than half that using a Timbren product but I think they only do trucks. I would think something on the order of better bump stops and maybe stiffer shocks would get you there without breaking the budget.

The problem is no matter what I have installed on my car (unless I am mistaken) the tongue weight would not change. That's a problem.

Pete

[McBrew]

The problem is no matter what I have installed on my car (unless I am mistaken) the tongue weight would not change. That's a problem.

Pete

Well, sort of... the point is that some modifications (like suspension upgrades) could increase the safe tongue weight. Still, I have doubts about the 100# limit. I mean, a VW Golf has a higher rating, and so does a Toyota Yaris.

I know the HHR is based on the Cobalt... but I can't find either of those cars being sold in Europe... maybe under different names? Anyway, if you go on Chevy's UK website, you'll see tow ratings listed for each model. For instance, the Aveo is rated to tow up to 2,200 pounds... and that's with their smaller 84 hp 1.2 liter engine. They don't list tongue weight ratings, since that is based mostly on the model of hitch that is attached to the car.

The fact that your suspension doesn't drop much and doesn't bottom out with the trailer on there is a good indication that it can handle the weight.

Having said all that, I think it would be best to reduce the tongue weight any way you can if you plan on keeping this teardrop... that's a heck of a tongue weight for such a small trailer. It's almost 30% of the trailer weight!

[retnavycpo]

You're correct, Jesse.

But at this point, I really don't know if I can lessen the tongue weight, except by moving the axle (which isn't an option for me at least); or getting someone to add reinforcement metal to the hitch attachment. and I'm not even sure if that would be possible, or advisable to do.

Pete

[McBrew]

I don't think your hitch will need any reinforcing, so long as you stay within the tongue rating of the hitch. The tongue rating of the car doesn't mean much. However, I will say that I visited Curt's website and they claim that the HHR hitch they make is rated for a 200# tongue weight, not 300# as you mentioned before. You might want to double check. Make sure you're not looking at the tongue rating of the ball-mount... that has its own rating. The tongue rating of the hitch will be listed at the top of the installation page for your Curt hitch. They have those instructions on their site and it says 200#.

I would personally want to get the tongue weight down to within the rating that the hitch carries. You can pretty much ignore the car's tongue rating. As I mentioned previously, they rate cars very low in the US in regard to towing because they a) want you to buy a much more profitable truck instead and b) Americans are lawsuit-happy, and they are covering their butts to try not to get sued.

If your car needs any upgrades in the suspension, it'll be in the form of spring helpers or lift airbags... either of those will cost you less than $100.

[retnavycpo]

......Make sure you're not looking at the tongue rating of the ball-mount... that has its own rating.

You are correct. The ball mount is rated at 300 pounds max, but the hitch is only 200. Right now, the tongue weight is about 240.

I am thinking about possibly having spring helpers or airbags installed. But I can't see where that would reduce the tongue weight, or help minimize the impact it has. Maybe I am wrong. I am new to all of this. One person suggested "flipping" the axle. Not sure what he meant by that.

Pete

[chorizon]

I am thinking about possibly having spring helpers or airbags installed. But I can't see where that would reduce the tongue weight, or help minimize the impact it has. Maybe I am wrong. I am new to all of this. One person suggested "flipping" the axle. Not sure what he meant by that.
Pete

I've been following this thread and I see your dilemma. I'll try to explain the whole tongue-weight from my perspective. Hopefully, I'm not blowing smoke!

For arguments sake, let's say the tongue weight on your trailer is 240#, since you've already tried moving things around, and moving the axle is not going to happen.

Now, the only mod that can be made would be to modify the TV to accept a hitch-weight of at least 240#. You would obviously need a little more heavy-duty receiver (hitch) since yours is rated at 200#.

Here's my example on the benefits of airbags/helpers. If I sit my 260# self on the tailgate of my Dodge 1/2T PU, there is no noticeable sag in the rear suspension.

If I sit on the rear bumper of our Saturn, the rear suspension is close to being bottomed-out, and their is a much more noticeable gap between the front tires and the fender-wells, indicating an unloading of the front suspension (bad for steering).

Obviously, the PU's rear suspension is much more capable of handling a heavier hitch weight.

Lets say you've hooked up your TV to your TD, and you're ready to go. Well, the rear-end just sank 6 inches, and now it looks like the front wheels are almost coming off the ground. Never fear! You installed airbags on your rear suspension! Just add air to your rear suspension and voila! The rear of your vehicle is literally raising before your eyes! Once the vehicle is once again level, your done adding air!

If the rear suspension is too stiff when not towing the trailer, simply let all the air back out of the airbags.

Hope this helps. Maybe somebody could explain it better. Alas, for me I haven't been able to find any airbags or helpers for our Saturn, so I'll have to figure something else out if I want to be able to use it as our TV.

As for flipping the axle, they are talking about moving the axle from one side of the springs to the other. Don't know if that would help or not...

[angib]

McBrew, watch out for comparing US and European tow ratings - one very big difference between American and European trailers is that European ones have much, much lower hitch weight percentages, like 4-7% or even less.

So those higher European tow ratings (ie, trailer weights) do not mean higher weights on the hitch. Indeed the maximum hitch weight is often the same on both continents, but that means the Europeans can tow a heavier trailer as it will still only have the same hitch weight as lighter American trailer.

If you want to use a European tow rating, you need to be using a European trailer with, for an American, several major restrictions (less speed, more attention, better brakes).

However retnavycpo has exactly the opposite condition, where he has much more than the recommended American hitch weight percentage. Looking at his trailer, I don't see an easy way of getting its hitch weight down to an acceptable level - its wheels are just too far back.

Andrew

[retnavycpo]

Thanks for the explanations.

I have to add that, even with the current tongue weight, there is no noticeable sag on my vehicle with the TD hooked up to it. None whatsoever.

I took a look at the hitch on my car last evening. There is no sign of loosening at all. Of course metal fatigue would not necessarily show outwardly until it's too late. I know that much from working on aircraft in the Navy.....

Pete