I'm alive--but do you guys have time for THIS story? PART 1

Things that don't fit anywhere else...

Postby TomS » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:15 pm

I don't want to reopen the Katrina debate either. But, I am interested in hearing Ira's first-hand account the goings on in South Florida. It's one thing to opine on such matters from hundreds or thosuands of miles away. It's quite another to tell your story when you are there and living through it.
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Postby madjack » Fri Oct 28, 2005 8:15 pm

Tony...I hear your request....1st) it take two to have an argument(remember that) 2) if part 2 turns into an open ended rant it will be locked and/or pulled #3) Ira tells stories in an interseting manner and by all means I wish to hear what he says in part2 without prejudging what it is he might say 4) see#1 & 2

I hope that satisfies you because it is the best you are going to get at the moment...a promise on my part to pay attention to what is being said and what is going on

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Postby Guest » Fri Oct 28, 2005 9:40 pm

Ira,
Glad to hear that you and your family are alright!
I was really suprised to hear that the Crab survived, as I knew it was in a boat yard... Cool!
This can't be the end to Part 1 already... can it? (That was more like an intro)
Ditto's Madjack... I want to hear Part 2 after Ira finishes Part 1.
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Postby Kens » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:47 pm

Hey TomS I was in Myakka State Park this summer (sarasota for a wedding ) did you know there are gators and wide boar in that park? :o
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Postby madjack » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:55 pm

...how wide are the boars and are there any chupacabras :D ;)
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Postby TonyCooper » Fri Oct 28, 2005 11:59 pm

madjack wrote:Tony...I hear your request....1st) it take two to have an argument(remember that) 2) if part 2 turns into an open ended rant it will be locked and/or pulled #3) Ira tells stories in an interseting manner and by all means I wish to hear what he says in part2 without prejudging what it is he might say 4) see#1 & 2

I hope that satisfies you because it is the best you are going to get at the moment...a promise on my part to pay attention to what is being said and what is going on

adMadinator Jack!!!!


MadJack

With all due respect, IraRat already clearly crossed the line in Part 1 and brought politics up...

Do I understand you to say is it is OK to have short little Political Barbs and Jabs - just no long winded explanations?

Please further clarify...

I want to understand and stay within the guidelines, and I want others to respect them as well. After all what good are rules and guidelines if no one follows them?

I'm jealous ... I want a free pass too!

Respectfully...
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Postby Kens » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:21 am

duh (wild) :oops:
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Postby madjack » Sat Oct 29, 2005 12:35 am

First and foremost...NO ONE HAS A FREE PASS, not me, not you and certainly not Ira...maybe Mike, but then he owns the board.
Secondly, I have read and reread and reread and just now reread again and just don't see what has got you all up in a wad unless you simply dislike Ira so much that anything he says is objectionalble to you.
As TomS said, a first person account is much different than a simple opinion.
If by "already crossing the line" you mean a couple of short jabs at the government, then no he hasn't...afterall, even they admit to failing at their designated responsibilities. This not the place to debate those responsibilities and a debate on those responsibilities will not be allowed on this board...we build T&TTT's not governing coalitions
If Ira's further posts turn into nothing more than a long winded anti goverment rant then it is the admins JOB to call him on it...NOT YOURS
A POLITE argument/debate is warmly welcomed, even encouraged, if you have serious problems with the contents of ANY posts, please feel free to bring it to my attention, Dean's attention or Mike's attention and we will see what needs to be done...do not start a heated argument with someone you disagree with on a personal, religious or political level that denigrates into name calling and personal insults(and yes it takes 2)...I can guarantee that it will be shut down and shut down quickly regardless of who started what.
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Postby TonyCooper » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:46 am

madjack wrote:First and foremost...NO ONE HAS A FREE PASS, not me, not you and certainly not Ira...maybe Mike, but then he owns the board.
Secondly, I have read and reread and reread and just now reread again and just don't see what has got you all up in a wad unless you simply dislike Ira so much that anything he says is objectionalble to you.
As TomS said, a first person account is much different than a simple opinion.
If by "already crossing the line" you mean a couple of short jabs at the government, then no he hasn't...afterall, even they admit to failing at their designated responsibilities. This not the place to debate those responsibilities and a debate on those responsibilities will not be allowed on this board...we build T&TTT's not governing coalitions
If Ira's further posts turn into nothing more than a long winded anti goverment rant then it is the admins JOB to call him on it...NOT YOURS
A POLITE argument/debate is warmly welcomed, even encouraged, if you have serious problems with the contents of ANY posts, please feel free to bring it to my attention, Dean's attention or Mike's attention and we will see what needs to be done...do not start a heated argument with someone you disagree with on a personal, religious or political level that denigrates into name calling and personal insults(and yes it takes 2)...I can guarantee that it will be shut down and shut down quickly regardless of who started what.
madjack.......................



MadJack,

I am at a loss here... I don't know IraRat well enough to like or dislike him at all... and I take personal offense to the implication that you suggest such a thing...

This is the only passage in IraRat's post that I find objectionable. I include the first paragraph only so the last two sentences are fully understood in context.

"Here's the rundown on Wilma, and how it affected Dade, Broward and Palm Beach counties so far. (Situation-wise, it's more or less identical for all 3 counties.) Part II (to come) will cast some illumination on our wondeful FEMA, as well as the illusion that you can actually expect any real assistance from this arm of the Department of Homeland Security. Basicially, we're all doomed, because these guys don't have a CLUE as to what will be needed in an actual emergency.

And we're all white and middle class in Coral Springs, so any references to poor, dumb blacks aren't going to help conservatives very much here!

This storm was TOTALLY different from Katrina, and therefore, any of those past Katrina excuses won't hold water here."


What value is there in those last two statements except to inflame? "Poor dumb blacks" I think at the very least a very poor choice of words. I find "poor uneducated people" to be more appropriate, but then the race card can't be played. Katrina and Rita placed an enormous hardship on the entire Gulf coast from Texas to Fla. There are a lot of people affected... and my heart (and resources) have gone out to many there. I have done what I can do to help.

He is denegrating folks who believe a certain way... conservatives... he didn't say "government", or "authorities" here, he said "conservatives". He has a track record of such generalizations. He doesn't know my heart ... but I as a conservative get lumped into being non-caring and making excuses... Such generalizations should be unacceptable. What does Hurricane Wilma have to do with conservatives? I am tired of "conservatives" being unfairly stereotyped as not being compassionate, of being uncaring, and of being self centered, and greedy. This simply is not my experience.

That is why I requested this issue not be allowed to be raised again.

I honestly don't understand... I'll not say more... If this discussion must continue I request that we do so in private messages.

I am disappointed in your response.

Any issues or questions I have about board policy in the future will be brought to you, Dean, or Mike in private.
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Postby madjack » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:57 am

Tony, I am sorry you are disapointed in my answer, but I stand by all of it, I apologize for any offense you may have taken but none was intended, I was merely trying to find out what had so obviously inflamed you. You have very succinctly answered that question, and I repeat my appology to you for any offense. Any further disscusion on this matter will be handled in private as per you wishes
respectfully,
madjack.............
Last edited by madjack on Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby PaulC » Sat Oct 29, 2005 3:14 am

Quote: One of my fences starts flying to Oz,

Still searching, no luck at this point in time. :lol:
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Postby mikeschn » Sat Oct 29, 2005 7:22 am

I too am interested in hearing first hand what is happening down in FL. Back when it was Katrina, Madjack did a wonderful job sharing what he saw. And you get to see a view that is not typically in the news.

But at the same time, no one is looking for a political debate. So tell your story, but chose your words wisely. I'd hate to have to remove a thread gone bad. (i.e. no free passes to discuss politics here)

Thanks,

Mike...
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Postby Arne » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:00 am

Someone asked what happened before FEMA.... a lot of gov't programs have come about because of our burdgening population... If FL had a few thousand people, no big deal... you never hear about big storms unless there are large populations affected.

As the population grows, and lives to be older (more people moving to warmer climates in retirement), there will be more stories like this.... and more cries for gov't help........ and the damage total will keep increasing... that's just the way things are.....
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Postby TomS » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:53 am

Kens wrote:Hey TomS I was in Myakka State Park this summer (sarasota for a wedding ) did you know there are gators and wide boar in that park? :o


I knew about the gators. I didn't know about the boars. Well, that "wide boar" population is about to increase by one :lol:

We like to to canoe flat water and slow moving rivers. Wendy, my bride, isn't wild about gators. I always get a thrill out of seeing them and other wildlife. It's my understanding that aligator attacks on adult humans are extremely rare. I'm sure as long as we keep our distance and don't harass them we'll be OK.

Note to Tony - The Admins made a judgment call. Please accept it graciously and move on. Nobody is forcing you read this thread. If Ira's comments bother you, don't read them.

The Admins do thankless job. The last thing they need is boatload of B.S. from us everytime they make a decision.
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Postby IraRat » Sat Oct 29, 2005 9:56 am

Whew. I see that I missed a lot--but I collapsed from exhastion yesterday afternoon, was up for just a few hours, then collapsed again.

I guess the weight of the week finally caught up with me.

Didn't mean to start any tension here, and I apologize if my choice of words got some people riled up. I just think that since each storm IS so unique, and since politics IS a big part of the story, you just can't ignore it. But I'll try to be softer with my words.

So I'll continue here, and I'll go through my photos later to resize and upload them, and we'll take it from there.

First, I want to thank Mike TONS for the fantastic Budweiser metal sign that arrived here on WEDNESDAY! That was great of you, Mike--and I really needed that smile! Yes, miraculously, mail and the bills did indeed start arriving on Wednesday, and there was a liquor sales ban put into effect on TUESDAY and I had drank my last can !!!

It was sheer torture, so I started licking the sign.

Anyway, food-wise and supply-wise, we were all set to go. Problem was, I didn't yet have one of those extreme coolers, but I had a few decent ones. So ice that was in place on Sunday was just about gone by Tuesday, with no stores open by mid-day, and only 6 of the 12 Broward County FEMA ice and water distribution sites operational.

These sites are kind of a waste of time to the majority of the population, with hours-long waits, short supplies, and no way for most people to get there.

Granted, I found it pretty ridiculous how a lot of people complained about the lack of food and water just a day after the storm. For God's sake, if your roof didn't blow off and your stuff was still intact, how much stuff did you have there in the FIRST place?

A damn hurricane was coming, you idiot!

Ice--all I needed was a good daily supply of ice. And if it wasn't for "privilege," I would have been screwed:

We never lost phone service, but my wife's Wal-Mart did, where she works overnights. So I drive her there Tuesday afternoon to see if she's supposed to work that night, and lo and behold, they're open, with a line around the block. A lot of people were there who JUST remembered to buy a barbecue, to buy water, to buy food. She walks right in with her ID to get the info, buys two bags of ice, and we're cool. She works the next few nights, arriving each morning with fresh ice, so we're living large.

By the way--the store was only open from like 10AM to 6PM, because of the curfew. She worked nights to help stock supplies coming in from Wal-Mart trucks.

So lesson one:

The heck with FEMA trying to distribute this stuff. The government should contract with omni-present Wal-Mart to handle this task from now on. They have thousands of trucks, hundreds of distribution centers, and warehouses and warehouses of food and other stuffs throughout the country.

In other words, leave this to the PROFESSIONALS. Reach some kind of an agreement with them, pay the price, and be done with it. To have only 12 distribution centers in a county the size of mine is absurd, and there must be at least 20 Wal-Marts here. they could also have set up 50 ice trucks in parks to distribute it.

Next, do not ever, EVER suspend liquor sales!!! Who the hell do you think you ARE!? (Tony, I'm now yelling at the liberal Democrats in charge here.) I'm stuck in this house for 5 days without power, with the wife and kids, and you expect me to do this SOBER, without killing anyone!?

Furthermore, and I say this loudly to all of the authorities:

When someone loses power and has to rely on generators, generators need GASOLINE. But if the gas stations can only pump when THEY have power, and they DON'T have the generators or kind of systems that allow generator use, no one can get the gas to use their generators!!!

Duh.

A federal law should be passed requiring every gas station in the country to have back-up power. This country needs its juice, and any interruption to that current, be it by natural disaster or terrorism, leaves us incredibly vulnerable. Mind you, there was plenty of gas here--there was just no way to get it from the pump!

I don't have a generator, but if I DID, I would have used it a few hours a day, with an icemaker, just to make ice to keep those food stuffs in the cooler fresh. (No need to run it 24/7 for the entire fridge.) As it was, every night at about 8PM, I would hook up my DC-AC inverter to my truck, plug in the TV and DVD player, and we would watch a few movies.

This helped retain our sanity more than anything else. (I wanted to make the kids popcorn with the microwave, but I didn't think my 700W peak inverter would handle it with our large microwave.)

So there were some good lessons learned here. As far as cooking, no problem--camp stove, plenty of propane, and in conjunction with the barbecue, I didn't even go through ONE of those little cans.

And another instance about "privilege":

One of my neighbors is a manager at the Whole Foods Market, and on Tuesday night he brought over filet mignon, prime rib RIBS (had never even heard of that as a special cut before), shrimp and lobster tails. So as you can see, we didn't starve at all, and we didn't even touch our canned goods the entire week.

We were VERY lucky, but 99.99999% of people weren't. We also consider ourselves lucky that we got our power back already, but two blocks over and blocks and blocks nearby are still out. (My office in Boca may be out until mid-NOVEMBER, and although I was frustrated, I knew Florida Power and Light was doing their best.)

In concusion, I'll say that I waited 4 hours for gas yesterday. They ran out after 3 hours, we were told another truck was coming so I kept waiting, then we were told it WASN'T coming.

And the manager called the police to chase me and a few other die-hards away who simply didn't want to give up. Today, I try again. My mom's power is still out in Delray Beach, her supply situation is awful, and I want to get some fresh stuff up to her, so I need the gas.

And she's not alone--there are still a lot of people hurting here, physically and emotionally.

Catch you all later!
--Ira

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