I'm alive--but do you guys have time for THIS story? PART 1

Things that don't fit anywhere else...

Postby madjack » Sat Oct 29, 2005 10:11 am

you know ya might be right about the deal with Wal-Mart, a lot of people knock'em...myself included but on the Ms. Gulf coast after Katrina, they were the first thing up and running, they set up circus tents on their parking lots and started distributing ice and water along with selling cleaning supplies and food. Although they were the only game in town, they did not gouge, instead they sold product at or below cost...I know this because my buddy bought a $700 generator(Northern Tools catalog) for $499.
Anyway, Ira hang in there and know that things are only gonna get better
madjack 8)
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Postby Guest » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:33 am

Ira,
I suppose you'll be adding beer, generator and gas to the "next time" list, eh?
I don't even drink and I don't get that rule...
Let's just hope that you don't have to go through this again anytime soon.
You silly guy.... you didn't need a microwave to make the kids popcorn.
You had it all right there... Campstove and a pot. ;)
But Hey... With those eats that your neighbor was bringing over, who needed popcorn, eh?
Yes, aren't prime rib ribs great!!!???
Hope you can get some gas soon, so you can attend to your Mother's needs. :worship:
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Postby Cutterpup » Sat Oct 29, 2005 11:55 am

I am glad that Ira and his family are okay as is the crab.
But I agree with Ira no beer sales just means you must stock up early and often.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I hope that everyone reading Ira's post and madjacks's from the OTHER storms have come to the same conclusion.

One, the government is led by people that can and will make mistakes and waiting for the government to help an individual means you gon'n wait a long time. We must be self reliant even in this age of instant communications and gratification. Example: My first house was in a small subdivision of about 20 houses, The very first night we moved in we lost power. Judy and I were treating ourselves to a T-bone steak dinner and that's when we lost power. So we dragged out the Coleman lantern and had the wood stove going which gave us heat and since we didn't have any curtains on the front windows the light shown out onto the very dark street. Soon our new neighbors starting showing up all saying the same thing "oh I thought you guys had power?"
Portable radios gave us music and the house warming party started. We didn't even give a second thought about when the power was going to come back on or when the government was going to come rescue us. We just had a party. Now of course this wasn't a damaging storm just some Idiot with a back hoe doing something that must-of started with a "here hold my beer". But its an attitude and preparations that set us apart from our neighbors they had no clue what to do, they were sitting in their brand new all electric houses in the dark and since it was December the cold. This was 25 years ago and the attitude of some people has not changed and probably never will. So let all who read this think just how dependant we have become on the government for everything. And just what we need to do to not survive but to enjoy over way of life whatever it is.


Okay I'll get off my soapbox now and you can go back to your regular T&TTT
Dan
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Postby TonyCooper » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:01 pm

madjack wrote:you know ya might be right about the deal with Wal-Mart, a lot of people knock'em...myself included but on the Ms. Gulf coast after Katrina, they were the first thing up and running, they set up circus tents on their parking lots and started distributing ice and water along with selling cleaning supplies and food. Although they were the only game in town, they did not gouge, instead they sold product at or below cost...I know this because my buddy bought a $700 generator(Northern Tools catalog) for $499.
Anyway, Ira hang in there and know that things are only gonna get better
madjack 8)


WalMart and Home Depot know how to move supplies... both are very impressive, and IraRat is right, they do it better then anyone else. Way better then any government agency with the possible exception of the military... but they don't do it cheap!
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Postby TonyCooper » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:06 pm

Cutterpup wrote:I am glad that Ira and his family are okay as is the crab.
But I agree with Ira no beer sales just means you must stock up early and often.
:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

I hope that everyone reading Ira's post and madjacks's from the OTHER storms have come to the same conclusion.

One, the government is led by people that can and will make mistakes and waiting for the government to help an individual means you gon'n wait a long time. We must be self reliant even in this age of instant communications and gratification. Example: My first house was in a small subdivision of about 20 houses, The very first night we moved in we lost power. Judy and I were treating ourselves to a T-bone steak dinner and that's when we lost power. So we dragged out the Coleman lantern and had the wood stove going which gave us heat and since we didn't have any curtains on the front windows the light shown out onto the very dark street. Soon our new neighbors starting showing up all saying the same thing "oh I thought you guys had power?"
Portable radios gave us music and the house warming party started. We didn't even give a second thought about when the power was going to come back on or when the government was going to come rescue us. We just had a party. Now of course this wasn't a damaging storm just some Idiot with a back hoe doing something that must-of started with a "here hold my beer". But its an attitude and preparations that set us apart from our neighbors they had no clue what to do, they were sitting in their brand new all electric houses in the dark and since it was December the cold. This was 25 years ago and the attitude of some people has not changed and probably never will. So let all who read this think just how dependant we have become on the government for everything. And just what we need to do to not survive but to enjoy over way of life whatever it is.


Okay I'll get off my soapbox now and you can go back to your regular T&TTT
Dan


That with "just in time supply chains" all over the country set us up for disaster. Any abnormal demand and supplies quickly vanish... Mormons have it right... have a years supply of basic essentials handy... I don't at this time, but I could manage for a month pretty easily.

With all that has happened in the last few months I am rethinking my disaster philosophy and putting action plans in place.
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Ira's Mom

Postby Guy » Sat Oct 29, 2005 1:55 pm

Dear Ira,

Glad to hear part II. Hope you can get the supplies up to your Mom. The elderly are not as self sufficient as some younger folk and, given their sacrifices for our country, they are the responsibility of all of us.
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Postby mikeschn » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:40 pm

IRA,

Put the Budweiser sign on the roof. FEMA is supposed to drop cases of Bud to anyone that lets them know they need it.

Oh, maybe that was water and ice... Sorry, I got confused there.

Still, I'm glad to hear things are working out reasonably well, all things considered. I notice you didn't even have to retrieve your teardrop to have a place to sleep. If we can help you out, let us know.

In the meantime, just hang out your shingle, so that where know where we can get a Bud! ;)

Mike...
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Postby TomS » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:47 pm

All this disaster talk has me thinking about what would happen around here if we lost power for more than a few hours. I've lived here for 20 years and we've never lost power for more than 3 or 4 hours.

Here in New England, the most likely cause of a prolonged power outage would be a big nor'easter or a massive ice storm like the one that hit Ontario a few years back. Luckily we narrowly missed that big north east blackout 2 years ago.

My hot water heater and stove are propane. No problem there. My wife loves candles. So we always have plenty around the house.

My oil furnace is where I think I'm vulnerable. It needs electricty to run. If the furnace remains off long enough, my pipes will freeze; And then I'm really screwed. Perhaps a small generator isn't such a bad idea. Is there an easy way to attach it to the appropriate branch circuits in my house, should the need arise?
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History of FEMA

Postby Guy » Sat Oct 29, 2005 2:48 pm

Here is a timeline of the origins of disaster relief in America and how we eventually get to FEMA. As we will learn from this is Federal Disaster Relief started in 1803 helping Portsmouth, New Hamshire. This is from the Brookings Institute website and is also reflected (not verbatim) on most websites I found, including FEMA's:


Help Victims of Natural and Human-Made Disasters
Action to assist in disaster relief, prevention, and risk sharing

Project Resources

Full report in HTML or in PDF (166KB)

Take the Achievements survey

Endeavor Summaries

Government's Greatest Priorities of the Next Half Century

Government's Greatest Endeavors of the Second Half of the 20th Century

Homepage

Major Statutes:

* 1950 PL 81-875 Disaster Relief Act
* 1956 PL 84-1016 National Flood Insurance Program
* 1958 PL 85-500 Flood Control Act
* 1968 PL 90-448 Housing and Urban Development Act of 1968 (National Flood Insurance Program)
* 1968 PL 90-259 Fire Research and Safety Act
* 1974 PL 93-498 Federal Fire Prevention and Control Act
* 1979 Federal Emergency Management Agency established

Summary of Government Efforts:

The federal government has endeavored to decrease the damage and suffering man-made and natural disasters inflict on the United States. Several laws have been passed in order to strengthen the emergency management, government readiness and response in order to come up with a comprehensive natural disaster plan. These laws have endeavored to make the United States' response to natural disasters as quick and as fair as possible to lessen the hardships of those affected.

The first legislation that dealt with disaster relief was passed by the federal government in the form of the Congressional Act of 1803. This act was in response to a fire that did extensive damage in Portsmouth, New Hampshire. As recovery efforts severely taxed community and state resources, Portsmouth's citizens sought federal relief. Between 1803 and 1950, more than 100 disasters of various types across the nation were fought with federal resources. During World War II, a Civil Defense department was established to respond to disasters and maintain civil preparedness. The Federal Civil Defense Act of 1950 created the Federal Civil Defense Agency which established the framework for the federal civil defense policy that was used during the 1950's and also provided monetary assistance to states for preparedness activities. The principal focus of this act was protection from nuclear attack but also included plans that dealt with the emergency management and response strategy in case of a natural or man-made disaster.

On September 30, 1950, Congress passed the Federal Disaster Relief Act. This act was designed primarily to allow the federal government to provide limited relief to the states during times of man-made or natural disaster. This act included assistance to alleviate hardships and damages as well as to repair essential public facilities after a major disaster, and to encourage states to develop a disaster plan. The 1950 Disaster Relief Act gave the local and state governments the first line of official responsibility after a disaster occurs, made the federal response automatic and, for the first time, provided federal agencies the authority to coordinate inter-governmental relief efforts.

In 1968, the National Flood Insurance Program (NFIP) [http://www.fema.gov/nfip] was established. The NFIP protects high risk flood areas by backing communities that agree to specific standards in reducing future flood damage. National Flood Insurance is available in more than 19,000 communities across the United States and its territories.

The Fire Research and Safety Act of 1968 established the National Commission on Fire Prevention and Control to investigate the problems with fire the United States was facing and make recommendations. In 1973, this commission issued a report titled "America Burning" which recommended drastic measures to lessen the danger fire posed to the United States and called for the establishment of a United States Fire Administration and a national fire training academy. The Federal Fire Prevention and Control Act of 1974 incorporated the "America Burning" recommendations in establishing the National Fire Prevention and Control Administration within the U.S. Department of Commerce (now the United States Fire Administration (USFA) [http://www.usfa.fema.gov]).

By the mid 1970's the federal response to disasters and emergencies was diffused between more than 100 different government agencies from the Department of Defense to the General Services Administration. With many services duplicated at the state and local levels, President Jimmy Carter passed an executive order in 1979 that merged many of the agencies involved in emergency preparedness and response into a new Federal Management Agency (FEMA) [http://www.fema.gov] that would coordinate disaster relief by setting up disaster assistance centers to deliver aid in effected communities. The mission of FEMA is to provide leadership and support in times of disaster, reduce the loss of life and property, and protect the nation from all types of hazards. Today, FEMA is a 2,500 person agency that has over 5,000 disaster reservists who can be called into action at a moment's notice.

References:

* Congressional Quarterly Almanac, Vol. 6, pp. 177
* Congressional Quarterly Almanac, Vol. 12, pp. 451-453
* Congressional Quarterly Almanac, Vol. 14, pp. 304-308
* Congressional Quarterly Almanac, Vol. 24, pp. 317, 326-327
* Congressional Quarterly Almanac, Vol. 24, pp. 356
* Congressional Quarterly Almanac, Vol. 30, pp. 331-332
* Congressional Quarterly Almanac, Vol. 34, pp. 802
* History of the Federal Fire Program. Legislative History of the Federal Fire Program. http://www.usfa.fema.gov/about/history.htm
* History of the Federal Management Agency. http://www.fema.gov/about/history.htm
* National Flood Insurance Program. Federal Emergency Management Agency. http://www.fema.gov/nfip/summary.htm
Regards,

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Postby Geron » Sat Oct 29, 2005 4:05 pm

Depending on the Gov't for relief is like depending on the Police for security and protection.

Like a Deputy Sheriff once admitted to me after a discussion about gun ownership. "About all we can do to protect the general pubic is show up and zip up the body bags."

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Postby TonyCooper » Sat Oct 29, 2005 5:20 pm

TomS wrote:All this disaster talk has me thinking about what would happen around here if we lost power for more than a few hours. I've lived here for 20 years and we've never lost power for more than 3 or 4 hours.

Here in New England, the most likely cause of a prolonged power outage would be a big nor'easter or a massive ice storm like the one that hit Ontario a few years back. Luckily we narrowly missed that big north east blackout 2 years ago.

My hot water heater and stove are propane. No problem there. My wife loves candles. So we always have plenty around the house.

My oil furnace is where I think I'm vulnerable. It needs electricty to run. If the furnace remains off long enough, my pipes will freeze; And then I'm really screwed. Perhaps a small generator isn't such a bad idea. Is there an easy way to attach it to the appropriate branch circuits in my house, should the need arise?


Short answer is "Yes" easily done. You simply need to isolate the circuit from all outside sources before powering up the generator.

I wired up an auxillary power panel to run my entire home - isolated from power grid. I did the work and it cost me less than $300 in wire and panel. I also put in a whole house power / surge protector at the same time. All power, phone lines, & cable input from the grid run through it. It has saved my bacon twice when we had severe lightening storms...Both neighbors on each side of me suffered severe damage to appliances, well pump etc... I had no bad effects from either strike. It is worth the $300 for the added protection. It has paid for itself twice now. I also made the panel portable so that I can take it with me to my next house.
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Postby TomS » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:16 pm

Thanks for the info, Tony. If I did it, I'd use one of those small portable generators. I'd just want to keep the furnace going and maybe run some lights. I could shut off the main, just in case the power comes back on. Then, open up an electrical box near my furnace, disconnect the feed from my service panel and connect up a line to the generator. The idea is just to keep the furnace going so we don't freeze to death.
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Postby Grandadeo » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:31 pm

OK, here goes. I have not gone through all the posts in detail but I think I get the general flavor. Wilma was my third hurricane in 14 months with three eyes over the house. Although this one was just the north edge of the eye, winds around 80 - 90 MPH, last years' two were direct hits on my area. So I think that gives me a basis for adding my dollar three eighty to the conversation. I'm still without power but hope it will be coming in the next day or so based on line truck activities getting closer. But what I really wanted to address is pre-storm preparations. Its everybodies responsibility to act like responsible adults and protect their family and property as best they can and be ready. I bought a generator about five years ago and have it ready to go with about three to five days of gas on standby. My cars are full of gas before hand. I board up the house and fill up the tub with water and have plenty of food and water in stock. If it gets up to a cat 4 I'm gone, otherwise we ride it out. I am amazed at the number of people who seem to be oblivious to what they should do to get ready. Even if your new to Florida, the news stations tell you what to do and where to get it days before the storm hits. For the house I have insurance but I'M responsible for everything else. Why do people expect the Gov to hold there hand through these things. They're perdictable and you have plenty of time to prepare. So to the general population out there, GROW UP and take care of yourself. Elderly and children excluded. We should be takeing care of them too. Ok I'm done

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Postby doug hodder » Sat Oct 29, 2005 6:35 pm

Thanks Lee.... :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup: Doug
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Postby madjack » Sat Oct 29, 2005 8:13 pm

Tom...be sure and size a generator properly...does the furnace use 220 or 110, what is the amp pull of the furnace....ampXvolts=watts...be aware CO poisoning, if the gens set is in the basement you are probably safe in the house but what about when you go to refuel...you may want to vent the exhaust out of the basement(recommended)...depending on wattage requiements a 2000watt whisper quiet honda costs more than a 5/6000 watt jobsite generator...if the unit is to be dedicated to the house you may wish to consider one that runs on propane, a little more expensive but propane does not go bad...gasoline, even with stabilizer added will start going bad after 6 mos...if you are going to do this, EDUCATE yourself on generators and generator saftey...we wouldn't want you to become a "stupid" statistic
madjack 8)

p.s. if you have any questions, Pm me or ask on the board, I have a lotta generator experience and I am sure many on the board do also
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