Kayaking and camping

[John T. Hodgen]

hey all,
Scooter, I love the style of that sassafrass 12. So old school looking! Not to say anything about canoes/kayaks, but being from Louisiana, pirogues are what I grew up on. I'm thinking of building a lite weight 6' to put on top of the "Costta Lotta". We'll see how that goes before spring. I remember one as a kid that had a 3 1/2 brigg/stratten, straight shaft/stuffing box with a rudder on the end for steering. It was Kool and Fast!
Til later by the fire--John T. & Linda

[spud233]

as a boy scout leader we have begun to move from canoes to kayaks.we have tried a few and my favorite are from academy sports.they can be ordered online and if u research kayaks are the cheapest on market and very STABLE.thet are the Pelican model getaway 100.it is a sit in but very large and open cockpit.it is $399.00.also the pelican getaway .it is a sit on top.sells for $379.00.Rember as i tell my boys when teaching,ALWAYS WEAR A PFD...NO EXCEPTIONS .hope this helps

[Rvankeur]

You've gotten quite a few different perspectives - here's mine...


First background - Ed and I met at the Philadelphia Canoe Club where we (Ed and I) paddle both whitewater and flatwater, canoes and kayaks.

I have in the past been a certified by the American Canoe Association to teach kayaking up to class II. We also help teach Swiftwater Rescue classes.

We have over a dozen boats - whitewater and flatwater solo and tandem canoes, whitewater and sea kayaks, and 1 sit on top.

Comments about some of the previous posts:

*) yes, absolutely ALWAYS WEAR YOUR PFD. Buy a good quality, comfortable one. Expect to pay somewhere between $70 - $100 for a good quality paddling PFD.

*) yes, absolutely, find a local paddling club

*) yes, absolutely, find a good local outfitter and paddle some boats before purchasing one (you wouldn't buy a car without driving it, would ya?)

*) I am a big proponent of wearing helmets, but they would only be required if you were paddling whitewater or surf.

*) rolling a kayak is only required if you are wearing a spray skirt, and really is only possible with whitewater or sea kayaks. Recreational kayaks are generally too wide to be rolled, and generally don't have the outfitting required to be able to do it (knee braces).

*) solo canoes are fun craft, but are not very common, so finding one at a decent price can be an issue.

*) sit on tops are fun, tend to be heavy, and you generally end up with a wet butt all of the time.

Onto my advice:

*) write down what your limitations and likely uses are:
- relatively lightweight - to be cartopped by you
- paddling lakes and slow moving streams vs open water or whitewater
- solo paddling or with kids or pets?

Then check with an outfitter for what they recommend.


Assuming that you're just looking to poke around in some lakes/slow moving streams, and are looking for a kayak - I'd recommend something a step up from what's found in BJ's, Dick's Sporting Goods, Walmart, etc. But only a slight step - something along the lines of a Wilderness Systems Pungo. It's still a recreational kayak (as opposed to a whitewater, or sea kayak), but it's a little more streamlined and you'll likely be less frustrated than you would with the $300 Walmart special.

Friends got a pair of these, and the wife is battling Lupus and is able to get the boat on top of their SUV. If you check into Thule "Hully rollers", it's a rack system with a set of wheels on the back end of the rack - you just need to get one end of the boat up there and push.

Just my 2 cents, from a paddling addict...
Rose

[kirkman]

Rose and Ed....I bet I have paddled with or at least met you on some river some where. I have Guided and taught or just paddeled just about every river around you for the last 16 years. From class II or V. The Lehigh, the Tohickon, the Yough. the Cheat. To many to name. I am always at the Cheat feast in May at the PS Composites booth selling our boats.

[Miriam C.]

http://www.outdoorplay.com/pungokayaks. ... nAodM0N8Kg

Still a little heavy for me I think. When I get something different I am going for the lightest I can get............and not go broke.

[Scooter]

If cheap is an issue, slap together an Uncle John's pirogue and give 'er a try. http://www.unclejohns.com/boat/default.htm I built a 15.5 footer, 40 lbs on the nose, although I went too heavy on the fiberglass/epoxy. IMO, one could easily build a 12 footer in the 30-35 lb range.


Then I added flotation compartments, boosting the weight to 55 lbs and ended the cartopping, although it's safer now. Guess because it's too heavy to use.

[Rvankeur]

Rose and Ed....I bet I have paddled with or at least met you on some river some where. I have Guided and taught or just paddeled just about every river around you for the last 16 years. From class II or V. The Lehigh, the Tohickon, the Yough. the Cheat. To many to name. I am always at the Cheat feast in May at the PS Composites booth selling our boats.

Well, if we haven't seen each other on a river, I'll bet we know some of the same folks. Those PS boats are really pretty, not sure if I could handle that mystery move in your album, though. Not THAT hardcore.

Our problem is we've got so many dang boats, and like paddling in all of its forms, that we never know what to do. I think the last WW we did was the Yough in a tandem canoe in August - then Ed did the Adirondack Canoe Classic in September, then it was soccer season for the younger son. Too much fun to choose from, too little time...




Scooter - that's a purty boat. I looked into those a long while back, but never made the leap.

Miriam - check out the inflatable kayaks on the Outdoorplay website. Again - I'd paddle 'em before I'd buy one, but they might be what you're looking for - lighter and cheaper, and to be honest, easier to store and carry. They won't be as durable, and some of them are a real slog to paddle - hence the "paddle 'em" comment.

Ladies - remember, you don't need to actually lift the whole boat up over your head to get it on your car racks. If you look at the different rack websites, you'll see that there are several "help" options available for cartopping a boat. There's this one nifty thing that is kind of a hydraulic lift that you put the boat on on the side of the car and help push it up to the roof (kind of expensive), but the main rack systems also have it so that you can lean one end of the boat on the ground, one end on the rack, and just push.

Also - as you paddle, you'd be amazed at how quickly your upper body strength increases (and those nasty saggy upper arms get traded in for some nicely toned arms).

We have this one nice tiny lady at our club, who, if she's under 70 I'd be shocked beyond belief, that outright REFUSES help in loading her boat. Mind you, she's got a plastic sea kayak that probably weighs in around 50 - 55 pounds (probably about half her weight). She's of the opinion that if she can't load her boat, then she shouldn't paddle. I don't recommend her technique of putting the boat on the trunk and shoving it up over the paint onto the racks - but her priority is the boat and paddling, not the car. Personally - I think that's a bit extreme, but then paddling is an addiction to some folks.

Typically, where you are paddling, people will be there who will be happy to help you get the boat on the roof.

[b.bodemer]

A previous post mentions rolling...........................

A roll in either a canoe or kayak is the ultimate self rescue technique because in a capsize you right yourself without leaving the boat. Some kayaks are easier to roll then others.

When I whitewater kayak I see plenty of canoeist who roll.

If you are going anywhere paddling by yourself then you need to learn basic self rescues..................do you need a roll? Probably not but if the water is over your head you need to know how to get back into a kayak or canoe by yourself. If you go with others than there are assisted rescues.

You can read about the techniques in books but the best way to decide what you'd like is to take a cheap class somehere and learn some of the things to look for in a craft you want and then how to take care of yourself if your boat flips.

I can roll a river kayak or sea kayak but it took a lot of practice for me before it became reliable. That's why I have a sit-on-top for pure fun stuff. I just walk it out into the water and sit on the open seat. If I want to swim I jump off and swim around. Swim across the seat area, turn and your butt is back in the seat again. Lot's of advantages with this type of boat.

Good luck..................you've got tons of good info being offered and I hope you get to take a class or go to a demo day near you!
Barb

[Kathy53]

I have a sit on top kayak. weighs 43 lbs 11.2 ft made by Emotion the model is exhilarator. I am pretty happy with it. I could handle putting it on the car and taking it off pretty ok. It has pretty good reviews on Paddle.net. It also had some bad ones too. I also had an old town canoe model Pack which only weighed 33 lbs and was 12 ft in length. I could put that on top of the car ok but had a hard time taking it off not because of the weight but because of the length. I still have the kayak but sold the pack. Ocean Kayak makes a kayak for women called the venus same length and weight as my exhilarator. Ocean Kayak is a good brand. (I tried their frenzy but to sluggish) The Emotion hasn't been around as long as Ocean Kayak but is also a good brand.

http://www.emotionkayaks.com/
http://www.oceankayak.com/kayaks/single_kayaks/
http://www.paddling.net/Reviews/

[nevadatear]

any opinions out there on the inflatable kayaks? for flat water occasional user?

[TheresaD]

I was wondering about the inflatables as well. I think I remember seeing someone with one at the ADK tear up last spring.

All of this info is great. Everyones thoughts and reviews are very helpful. I'm taking it all in.

[Shadow Catcher]

Another alternative might be a folding boat. I have seen folbot's first hand one very old one up on Lake Superior (they have been making them since 1933). I have also seen a number of the Porta-bote.

http://www.porta-bote.com
http://www.folbot.com

[hugh]

Where I live the summers are a bit shorter than the south, but we do have over 100,000 lakes and there is good paddling anywhere from 5 miles to 500 miles from my place. When I was 18 my friends and I got introduced to canoeing. We started going up this river 3 hours north from Winnipeg almost every weekend. There was an odd number of us so I decided to buy a kayak from a local outfitter. It was a 13' plastic boat called the River Runner made in Quebec and still made today. I still own mine and its a bit worse for the wear but it,s been with me for 39 years. It has a rounded hull and comes with a skeg for directional stability. A skeg is a small plastic rudder that slips over the end of the boat and allows you to go in a straight line. It took me prob 15 years before I learned to paddle that kayak in a straight line without the skeg and having said that I would never willingly go out without it. Anyway that boat weighs 35 lbs empty. The newer versions have a hatch in the rear and a larger cockpit to make it easier to get in or out. I have taken this boat on lots of fairly easy whitewater excursions and also camped out of it for trips of up to 1 week in length. Being a plastic boat it has a bulkhead front and rear to give the hull strength from being crushed. I have also owned 2 two man kayaks, one of which was home built and an Old Town 17 1/2' plastic canoe, the Discovery model. Now that I am in my 50,s I got lazy and bought a 2hp Yamaha motor for the canoe. Here,s my observations on kayaks versus canoes. Kayaks, generally being so streamlined are faster to paddle which translates into same speed as a canoe for less effort. On a windy day your upper body is the largest thing on the kayak that offers wind resistance. On a cold wet day with a spray skirt and a rain jacket and wet suit type gloves you will be invinceable, nice and cozy. Plastic kayaks are very durable and most new versions come with at least a rear hatch which is nice for storage of items such as a lunch, a jacket, etc. Some type of bungee cords on the deck in front of you is real nice, you can slip a water bottle or whatever under the mesh. Kayaks are way more stable than canoes because you sit so low in them, right on the water line. Thats the pros heres the cons. There are 2 ways to get in a kayak, the dry entrance and the wet entrance [ never owned a sit on top so won,t comment on those] I prefer the dry, you put the paddle across the back of the boat with one blade on the shore. You keep your in this case left hand wrapped around the paddle shaft and the edge of the cockpit and watching your center of gravity get in from a kind of sitting position. It,s tough to describe but actually easy to do, if you buy from a boat shop they will be able to show you. There is what we called the otter entry also. On a slope by the water get in and slide down into the water. Great fun. Anyway entry and exit is a pain compared to a canoe, with a canoe you can carefully step in or out. Fishing in a kayak is a royal pain, picture all stuff you need and imagine where you put it [paddle, rod, net etc]. With the wilderness near where I live we do a lot of wilderness tripping, portaging a kayak is a pain. There are only 2 ways to do it. On my 13 foot I rigged up a rope from bow to stern to provide a way to hold on when the boat is overhead. Wet plastic can be slippery and trying to carry a wet slippery 13 foot kayak is made much easier if you have a secure hand hold. With that 2 people carry 1 boat at a time. Think light weight camping along the lines of backpackers. The other option is empty the boat and make 2 trips per portage. Probably most people here just want a small kayak for floating around when camping out of their trailers so that doesn,t really apply. Thats about it for cons.
One quick word on hull shapes, there are several different types, the main difference between them is stability, some are very stable others are skinny and very fast yet unstable especially for novice paddlers. If anyone here has heard of Don Starkell I have paddled with him. Many years ago he and his son paddled up the Red River to the Mississippi then the Gulf then to S America in a canoe. After that he attempted to paddle the Northwest passage in a kayak. I paddled with him across Lake Winnipeg which is the 6th largest lake in Canada at 24,000 sq km,s. He had a very narrow yet very fast kayak while I was in a 17 foot sea kayak, very stable. I only saw him at the start of the trip and at camp at the end of the day, guess who prob got more enjoyment from the day. A lot of the kayaks sold at places like Costco are in the 11 or 12 ' length. They are pretty good for small playboats, just watch the weight, anything around or under 35 or 40 lbs should not be to hard to load on the roof. Sorry for the long winded post but kayaking and canoeing is near and dear to my heart.

[Rvankeur]

I was wondering about the inflatables as well. I think I remember seeing someone with one at the ADK tear up last spring.

All of this info is great. Everyones thoughts and reviews are very helpful. I'm taking it all in.

An inflatable might be a good compromise for what you want. Check www.outdoorplay.com for some models. I can't stress enough, though, that you really ought to try to paddle something before buying.

I don't recall where in CT you are - if driving to Somerset, NJ isn't a huge issue for you, you might want to check out Jersey Paddler's Paddlesport show March 26 - 28. http://www.jerseypaddler.com/paddle-sport/general-info.html

[emiller]

I am thinking of buying a Kayak also. Seams nobody wants to go canoeing with me.