Crazy Idea?

[rpm750]

Went to Lowe's Home Depot and Tractor Supply today. I think that I'm going to try a concept that the Tuner guys use to make sub speaker boxes. A frame with fleece or some kind of material stretched over it and then add the resin and glass mat. As I looked at different materials I tried to note their weight. The heaviest was a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" ply. 30-40 lbs. The 2" foam was a 4x8 sheet that was around 15lbs. I'm just guessing but I'm sure that I'm high on my estimate.

Several materials I found were really good choices but I keep gravitating back to glass over a form.

I've also broke out AutoCAD and I'm going over proportions, wheel size and adapting some cool features.

[vwbeamer]

If you could find an old vw van to use as a plug, we could make a mold and sell these babies.

[wlivesey]

Went to Lowe's Home Depot and Tractor Supply today. I think that I'm going to try a concept that the Tuner guys use to make sub speaker boxes. A frame with fleece or some kind of material stretched over it and then add the resin and glass mat. As I looked at different materials I tried to note their weight. The heaviest was a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" ply. 30-40 lbs. The 2" foam was a 4x8 sheet that was around 15lbs. I'm just guessing but I'm sure that I'm high on my estimate.

Several materials I found were really good choices but I keep gravitating back to glass over a form.

I've also broke out AutoCAD and I'm going over proportions, wheel size and adapting some cool features.

According to Wiki Answers, a 4x8 sheet of 3/4 ply weighs in at a hefty 75 lbs!!! MDF is even heavier...

http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_a_three_quarter_inch_thick_sheet_of_4_X_8_plywood_weigh

[rpm750]

I'm stuck on an axle choice. I'd like to go with the Rubber Torsion design but I need info on clearance. I found from the Dexter site or brochure that I need a min 3" Bump, what about a leaf setup. What clearance is required for that? I'm moving along with my plans and prints. I'll post some design pics soon.
Thanks for your responses.

Bob

[teardrop_focus]

I found from the Dexter site or brochure that I need a min 3" Bump, what about a leaf setup. What clearance is required for that?

At least 3 inches.

If your trailer is sprung appropriately, it will have suspension compliance.

If there isn't any suspension compliance and wheel travel, the trailer will bounce erratically when going down the road on anything less than a perfect road surface. And don't fall back on the old, "just let some air out of the tires" trick, though that helps but only as a "bandaid" as far as a cure for the real issue, that being a too-high axle spring rate and no suspension travel.

Plan for at least 3 inches of tire/wheel up-travel from it's static, loaded ride height in your wheel wells/ wheel house/ fenders.





And where did you hear that a VW beetle has a 1700 lb tow capacity? That seems rather optimistic...

A beetle is a lightweight untibody with, at best, 120 HP if semi-seriously modified... and it's brakes are not up to today's standards unless late-model discs have been fitted. Even then, I'd limit it's tow capacity to certainly no more than 1200 lbs... and that's with a FULLY loaded trailer, camping gear, liquids, food, clothing and all.

[DasBaldGuy]

Greetings from a water-cooled VW guy....

Not a crazy Idea at all...it has been done a number of times using various cars/vans etc. 600lbs might be tough, but I bet a stripped out van shell isn't very heavy (300 to 400 lbs?), especially if you can shorten it (save 40 or so lbs). Adding internal bits is where it gets heavy.

Good luck and I look forward to seeing your build thread!

[rpm750]

It's not going to have all those nice cabinets! Carpet inside and Headliner material for the walls!

I'd get shot if I cut up a Bus to build this, not and option I'm shooting for 600# but if it turns out about 750 that will work too. It should fall in there somewhere.

[Ageless]

And on the front; bring the beltline molding down to a 'V' like the front of the vans have

[rpm750]

Has anyone separated an 1/8" luan sheet. I'd like to use the thin outside layer as a base for my Camper in stead of the posterboard that I was going to use. Just seems stronger to me.

Or

Does anyone know where or who supplies a non-corrugated cardboard that is kind of thin.

[S. Heisley]

rpm750 wrote:

Has anyone separated an 1/8" luan sheet.

I don't think it will separate well at all. When unprotected 1/8" luan delaminates, it comes off in strings and small slices. I think your idea of fiberglass sheeting over Styrofoam or cardboard might work better than that. Also, if you could squeeze down your size from 64x102" to something smaller, you would help the weight issue. You don't want to kill your poor ol' baby bug towing vehicle!

This might be a dumb idea; but, what about a minimal cabin frame, wrapped in Saran-type wrap; sprayed with paint (or something to keep the wrap from dissolving/reacting from the fiberglass-related chemicals) followed by the fiberglass? I know, I know that idea is way out there.....

[Frog]

1,700 lbs is way too much for a Bettle to tow. I would think realistically under 1,000 lbs, probably 700 or so is more realistic. I bought a new 1970 Beetle in 1969 and put 107,000 miles on it. The Bug itself weighs around 2,000 - 2,100 lbs. The stock brakes were a joke. I once hitched a cement mixer to the car for a short trip home and could feel the weight.

In addition, adding 100 or so lbs tongue weight to the rear of the beetle will lighten the front end and badly compromise the already poor handling in wind or on wet pavement. (I used to add two 60 lb sacks of ready mix to the front end in the really windy months in So Calif. to keep the front end pointed where I wanted to go. I could feel just that much weight added when accelerating and stoping but it steered a lot better.

Additionally, the clutch may be a problem. Adding that much load to an air cooled engine will not be a good thing either. Getting a lot of HP out of the VW engine is easy, but it makes it somewhat untractable at low and mid range RPM, just where you need the HP and torgue for towing.

You would also need brakes on the trailer which adds weight, due to poor braking of the 1939 design of the Beetle.

Also besides being prone to moisture damage, mdf is pretty heavy. Exterior plywood would be a better bet. I just don't think you can come anywhere near 600 lbs ready for the road without a lot of exotic, expensive, light weight materials.

This is just my humble opinion. The Beetle is a good vehicle for what it was designed to do, i.e. haul 4 people max in an economical manner in the pre-emmissions control days.

[pete42]

Bob I once built an all fiberglass airplane, Rutan's var-i-eze.

It used an intercore of foam.

no need for plywood except where you want or need to screw into like door hinges

If you want a smooth looking side the foam can be covered with a coating of rosin and microballons sorta like iceing on a cake

then lay the fiberglass on the microballoned foam.

once you start you have to finish

if you can find a EAA aircraft club in your neck of the woods I'm sure they could direct you to a builder who could give you tips.

good luck.

[rpm750]

You would also need brakes on the trailer which adds weight, due to poor braking of the 1939 design of the Beetle.

You're Joking right?

Here's a short history on the evolution of the Type 1(Beetle) braking system. By the way Beetle and Bug was a term that the German public gave this car, the factory never named the car. The German word for Beetle is Käfer.

1939-1953 Type 1's had cable brakes. Yes Mechanical.
1954-1967 Hydraulic system was introduced and 45mm wide front drums and 35mm rears.
1968-1979 A Dual Circuit Hydraulic System was used and the front drums were widened to 55mm and the rears widened to 40mm. Major upgrades to the braking system because of added weight from thicker sheet metal and added US safety regulations. Just going to a dual circuit system increases the braking power.

As I here all that you have said my car is not even close mechanically to stock. I have added Disk brakes to the front and the wider 40mm rear drums. It will stop!! As for the Engine and Trans, No Problem towing a 600 - 750 # trailer!
My wife and I camp when we go to shows and we pack this little car with everything we need for a three day two night camp. When its packed, it feels like I got two additional passengers in the back seat not really much more. Any loaded vehicle will drive differently and you will notice the weight. Therefore you drive different. As for light front suspension, where did you come with that one? You would need so much weight on the tongue to cause this, yeah you could cause it but most likely never get the car to move at that point.
Recently I trailered my daughters boyfriends Ford Ranger behind our Astro on a car trailer with no trailer brakes. Now that was an adventure but we had no choice. Stopping was much longer and you have to take that into account. The trailer and Ranger weigh more than the Astro but when going down the road it was fine.

You know I've thought about adding brakes to the trailer. Never thought that brakes would brake the camels back on weight. What an added ten#'s. Wooo...

I'll have to run the tongue calculation and get back with ya on that one.

Some folks just take the fun out of life!

[rpm750]

Here's something to think about....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ICURd-gTpjg

[Frog]

"Where I came up with that one" is that you said the bug could handle 1,700 lbs for a trailer which would be 170 lbs behind the rear bumper with a 10% of total weight for the tongue. Your camping gear you listed is now loaded inside the bug, not on a trailer hitched behind the tv which has only a 94" wheelbase. 1,700 lbs on a 2,000 lb car with two passengers puts your brake load at 4,000 lbs with 42% behind the vehicle.
That will certainly lighten the front end.

If you stay at 750 lbs, I agree you probably are probably OK. Based on the trailer you described, you'll be hard pressed to keep it at that weight loaded.

You're in Georgia, I'm in California, so I don't have to worry about driving near you.