Lightweight futility?

[Fenlason]

I was earlier talking to Chris about lightweight builds, in another thread. There are some great lightweight skin boats out there.

I still think a vintage aircraft-style, fabric-and-dope teardrop would be neat.

denim and grass...

[dwgriff1]

I agree.

Ever since my dad's fabric covered Piper, I have been wondering and designing and thinking.

My first project of frame and skin is a canopy for my pickup. I am in need and I have the tools and skills and time!

But I have worked on a tear design with the same technique. The design could be quite traditional or really off the wall.

dave

[Fenlason]

a link to some images of some incredible skin boats.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/tellytom/s ... 061975962/

[dwgriff1]

I continue to search for the most efficient trailer design.

Frankly it does not look like weight is the big issue.

A. I pulled my trailer without even a mattress and got the same mileage as I get when it is loaded with full gear, and I load it pretty heavy sometimes.

B. I have a tandem axle flatbed trailer. On a 500 mile run, I got virtually the same mileage when it was empty as when it had 3 and 4000 pounds load. That load was compact and easily in the shadow of the tow rig.

C. I own a 21 foot Coachmen travel trailer, one of those square boxes. My friend owns a 28 foot Avion. I have pulled them both on that same 500 mile run. Even though the Avion weighs almost a ton more than the Coachmen, I got better mileage with the Avion, mostly because of it's shape, I believe.

That Avion pulled like a dream too, btw.

All of this and a lot of listening and asking, has led me to the conclusion that weight is not as important as we think it is, and I am the guy with the lightweight trailer!

dave

[Cliffmeister2000]

All of this and a lot of listening and asking, has led me to the conclusion that weight is not as important as we think it is, and I am the guy with the lightweight trailer!

dave

I agree! When you are pulling a trailer, you are dragging a parachute. One that doesn't catch as much air will be better than one that does. Weight on wheels isn't as critical as it seems it ought to be, unless you are constantly climbing. Just ask a cyclist. On a round trip, the net elevation gain is zero.

[afreegreek]

I have a 1 Ton Dodge van with a hopped up 318. it has tons of power and gets lousy mileage no matter what so weight wouldn't even make it onto my list.

[afreegreek]

All of this and a lot of listening and asking, has led me to the conclusion that weight is not as important as we think it is, and I am the guy with the lightweight trailer!

dave

I agree! When you are pulling a trailer, you are dragging a parachute. One that doesn't catch as much air will be better than one that doesn't. Weight on wheels isn't as critical as it seems it ought to be, unless you are constantly climbing. Just ask a cyclist. On a round trip, the net elevation gain is zero.

that's true, cyclists will add weight to their bikes (aero bars and disk wheels etc.) if it will gain them some reduction in drag for racing against the clock and strip off every ounce they can to race up hill.

[dwgriff1]

I have good experience with touring on bicycles and yes, when you go up you cherish the idea of coming down the other side.

That Avion trip still has my head spinning.

Would it make any sense to model a small trailer after that design?

dave

[SonofT@B]

Here's some lightweight stuff...if you can go a popup route

http://www.leesurelite.com

Still too expensive and back to a tent on wheels.

[Cliffmeister2000]

I have good experience with touring on bicycles and yes, when you go up you cherish the idea of coming down the other side.

That Avion trip still has my head spinning.

Would it make any sense to model a small trailer after that design?

dave

It would be a fun design, but might drive you crazy. There's a thread around here someplace about a "tinstream" or something like that. It would be a good place to study.

Found it: http://tnttt.com/viewto ... =tinstream

[dwgriff1]

I can enjoy the idea, but, as you say, it would be a huge amount of work.

That might be where a flexible material (Piper Cub comes to mind) might be the easiest system.

At this age I choose my big projects carefully.

dave

[rowerwet]

dope and fabric over a steel tube, aluminum tube, or geodesic wood (look up plat monfort geodesic aerolite boats, aviation type costruction for boats) are your best bet for light weight, the geodesic route would also allow you to make a more streamlined shape than a teardrop (flared sides and 6" rounded corners would improve aero even more) of course you are probably only going to see improvements to the right of the decimal point in gas mileage, compared to a regular TD.

[hugh]

I feel frontal area has a huge effect on mileage. Here is a picture of my previous tow vehicle pulling a small trailer I bought used and modified to go off road. Both it and the CJ7 had the same 35" tires. The Jeep had a 304 V8 which coupled with the shape did not get very good gas mileage.

I was using this small trailer because the Jeep did not have a whole lot of room for camping gear. Now I did not check my mileage in the usual way. What I did was fill up in town then stop at the same gas station every time I went out camping. And we usually went to the same spot most of the time. Anyway it used to cost me approx $60 to get to the gas station.. Then I decided to see if I could expand the trailer a bit by adding a covered wagon looking top to it. I bent some bows and used a silver tarp to cover them. This raised the profile of the trailer by about 3 feet in the middle at the highest point. It stuck up higher than the Jeep by maybe a foot. Then off to the favorite campsite and the difference was huge. I could feel the motor working harder and it cost an extra $15 to fill. That experiment lasted 1 trip. In a similar vein my current trailer has been spring over and spring under axle. In the spring under the trailer sits 6 inches higher and is about that much over the roofline of my current Jeep Cherokee. Now Jeeps arn,t known for great gas mileage, the XJ probably gets around 14 mpg or so, but that 6" difference can be felt, especially when towing into a headwind,the amount of gear I load into the trailer doesn,t seem to make much difference, just when accelerating or slowing which is why I upgraded to electric brakes.