AZ, how bad is it?

[caseydog]

This is another one of those topics where the extremes dominate the discussion. I've gotten into discussions of immigration over the last year, and have found that there is no room for a middle ground. Once again, it's the teabaggers versus the bleeding hearts.

Reason and reality don't stand a chance in this "debate."

CD

[martha24]

When I first saw the title of this thread, my first thought was about the fires that are raging in AZ and wondering how everyone is doing.

Listening to the radio on Monday driving home from out of town they really sounded bad. Hope no one is in the danger zone.

[Cliffmeister2000]

I have heard that the hardest border to cross in the Western Hemisphere is the one between Mexico and Guatemala.

[asianflava]

We felt very safe. Now this was about 4 years ago. But we would go again in a second.

We went to Laredo and walked across the border to Nuevo Larado about 5 years ago. Although, I haven't talked to anyone who has been lately, I'm pretty sure I probably wouldn't go there now. A few years can make a big difference.

[legojenn]

I have heard that the hardest border to cross in the Western Hemisphere is the one between Mexico and Guatemala.

I think the easiest one is between Dundee Quebec and Fort Covington New York and I hope that it stays that way. I wish that I could find a Youtube Clip of Michael Moore's TV Nation from the 90s, where he sent ridiculous 'illegals' over that border, like a bunch of old ladies and a roller-hockey team.

Seriously though, as someone who makes frequent visits to the US, specifically the Adirondacks and Thousand Island Regions of New York. I have found the border agents on the US side to be professional, friendly and efficient. Fortunately, incidents on the Canada-US border are so rare that they make news when they happen. I hope that your governments (state/federal) can find a way to balance easy, legitimate border crossing, like trade and tourism (as well as the orderly movement of the Phoenix Coyotes back to Winnipeg) with the illegal activity, such as illegal immigration, smuggling and terrorism. I feel lucky with the ease of coming across the border and love northern New York. Iâ

[caseydog]

Here is an interesting concept.

SAN FRANCISCO – In a tongue-in-cheek call for immigration reform, farm workers are teaming up with comedian Stephen Colbert to challenge unemployed Americans: Come on, take our jobs.

Farm workers are tired of being blamed by politicians and anti-immigrant activists for taking work that should go to Americans and dragging down the economy, said Arturo Rodriguez, the president of the United Farm Workers of America.

So the group is encouraging the unemployed — and any Washington pundits or anti-immigrant activists who want to join them — to apply for the some of thousands of agricultural jobs being posted with state agencies as harvest season begins.

All applicants need to do is fill out an online form under the banner "I want to be a farm worker" at http://www.takeourjobs.org, and experienced field hands will train them and connect them to farms.

According to the Labor Department, three out of four farm workers were born abroad, and more than half are illegal immigrants.

Proponents of tougher immigration laws have argued that farmers have become used to cheap labor and don't want to raise wages enough to draw in other workers.

Those who have done the job have some words of advice for applicants: First, dress appropriately.

During summer, when the harvest of fruits and vegetables is in full swing in California's Central Valley, temperatures hover in the triple digits. Heat exhaustion is one of the reasons farm labor consistently makes the Bureau of Labor Statistics' top ten list of the nation's most dangerous jobs.
Second, expect long days. Growers have a small window to pick fruit before it is overripe.

And don't count on a big paycheck. Farm workers are excluded from federal overtime provisions, and small farms don't even have to pay the minimum wage. Fifteen states don't require farm labor to be covered by workers compensation laws.

Any takers?

BTW, don't shoot the messenger, I'm just posting what I found.

CD

[Cliffmeister2000]

Knowing that Americans do not want to be farm workers, a "Guest Worker" plan has been discussed over and over, whereby Mexican Nationals would be brought over during harvest season, and taken back when harvest is over. Nobody would be illegal, and successful workers could have their permanent resident status upgraded. It always sounded like a "win-win" to me!

[Kelleyaynn]

Here is an interesting concept.


Proponents of tougher immigration laws have argued that farmers have become used to cheap labor and don't want to raise wages enough to draw in other workers.


CD [/b]

And if they did, food prices would rise, and people would gripe about that. There are no easy answers for sticky problems like this. Nobody really wants to make sacrifices and have to give up something to solve problems. It's a whole lot easier to complain.

[goramsey]

You don't have to be from the states to sue the states. I bet there will be some law suits against BP. Laws, I don't think our laws are enforced enough. Our Governor hasn't done anything for this state except divide it when we should be working together. I guess it is OK for undocumented workers to work the fields and car washes as long as the economy is doing OK. But when the economy tanks they point the fingers at others instead of them self's. We should look at rich folks not paying taxes with loop holes and the welfare system. I have never remembered the politicians doing so many negative pointing of fingers like now. All you hear during election is what the other hasn't done. What happen to being a united nation. We have become greedy. Why are are so many factories and companies moving abroad. What happen to made in America. Land of the free. I do agree that the borders should be controlled and should not be able to have a baby hear and automatically be a US citizen. This is still a great country but as I get older I worry about how free my grand kids are really going to be in the future.

I could not agree more.

[michaelwpayton]

One thing is clear: Most do not invest the time and effort required to really understand state, federal and international law... and the complicated politics (which is not a bad word) surrounding the situation on our southern border.

[deceiver]

Here in the North we have no illegal immigrants. So, please don't dump on me for this question. In fact, educate me.

If it's illegal to hire illegal immigrants, and everyone wants them gone particularly the places where they are. And, if many of them are here for a better way of life and to send money home to Mexico. Why not have a very very stiff fine for anyone hiring an illegal immigrant? No job, no money, little reason to be here? Or is this overly simplistic thinking.

[michaelwpayton]

Here in the North we have no illegal immigrants. So, please don't dump on me for this question. In fact, educate me.

If it's illegal to hire illegal immigrants, and everyone wants them gone particularly the places where they are. And, if many of them are here for a better way of life and to send money home to Mexico. Why not have a very very stiff fine for anyone hiring an illegal immigrant? No job, no money, little reason to be here? Or is this overly simplistic thinking.

Currently... Sec. 274A of the Immigration and Nationality Act (INA) and 8 U.S.C. 1324a, makes it unlawful for any person knowingly to hire, recruit or refer for a fee any alien not authorized to work. An employer that violates these laws can face penalties of:

· $250 to $2,000 fine for each unauthorized individual;

· $2,000 to $5,000 for each employee if the employer has previously been in violation; or

· $3,000 to $10,000 for each individual if the employer was subject to more than one cease and desist order.

The employer could also be fined $100 to $1,000 for each individual “paperworkâ€

[caseydog]

Here in the North we have no illegal immigrants. So, please don't dump on me for this question. In fact, educate me.

If it's illegal to hire illegal immigrants, and everyone wants them gone particularly the places where they are. And, if many of them are here for a better way of life and to send money home to Mexico. Why not have a very very stiff fine for anyone hiring an illegal immigrant? No job, no money, little reason to be here? Or is this overly simplistic thinking.

That's a valid question. Living in Texas, Mexican and Central American immigrants are a part of daily life. Go to McDonalds, and everyone who works there is hispanic. My house was built almost entirely by immigrant labor.

You hit on an important problem -- people want illegals out, but business wants them in. The same motivation for closing factories in the Midwest, and sending the work to China is at play in the illegal immigrant situation. Cheap labor equals lower prices and higher profits.

The politicians who shout the loudest about strengthening the borders and "no amnesty" are the same ones blocking immigration reform. Why, business likes cheap labor, and these politicians are pro business.

It is against the law to "knowingly" hire illegals, but all the employer has to do is make a photocopy of two forms of ID, and they can say they didn't know -- whether they do or do not know. There's a lot of "Sergeant Schultz" employers out there -- "I see nothing, I know nothing."

And then there are the day laborers. Hired by the day, paid in cash -- no paper trail. And people who hire maids, lawn care services and other household workers don't bother to verify legal status.

So, yes, it is complicated, and it is going to be tough to reform immigration policies (or keep illegals from coming) as long as illegal immigration is good for business.

CD

[michaelwpayton]

... It is against the law to "knowingly" hire illegals, but all the employer has to do is make a photocopy of two forms of ID, and they can say they didn't know -- whether they do or do not know. There's a lot of "Sergeant Schultz" employers out there -- "I see nothing, I know nothing." ...

Currently: ALL employers must complete and retain a Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and relate to the individual and record the document information on the Form I-9. In addition, ALMOST ALL government agencies, their contractors and their sub-contractors must participate in the e-Verify program.

[caseydog]

... It is against the law to "knowingly" hire illegals, but all the employer has to do is make a photocopy of two forms of ID, and they can say they didn't know -- whether they do or do not know. There's a lot of "Sergeant Schultz" employers out there -- "I see nothing, I know nothing." ...

Currently: ALL employers must complete and retain a Form I-9 for each individual they hire for employment in the United States. This includes citizens and noncitizens. On the form, the employer must examine the employment eligibility and identity document(s) an employee presents to determine whether the document(s) reasonably appear to be genuine and relate to the individual and record the document information on the Form I-9. In addition, ALMOST ALL government agencies, their contractors and their sub-contractors must participate in the e-Verify program.

You can drive a truck through that hole.

Bottom line, illegal immigrants are in demand, because they are good for business. I don't know how we can stop the flow across the border as long as this demand exists.

And, the American people want both border security, and cheap groceries.

It's complicated.