Questions on fender construction...help requested!!!

[cracker39]

As the start of my build approaches (Finally!!!), I still have a couple of unresolved construction issues. Here’s one of them.

Ira and I have been discussing the construction of wood fenders to match the theme of the trailer. I will construct wood fenders (I am considering fenders in the shape of my TTT) that have no “cutout” area in the face of the fender, so it may be difficult to remove the wheels with the fender in place, unless the fender is made wider with more “wiggle room” for the tire to be pulled out some to remove from the studs, and I don't want to give them that extra width.

So, I am looking for ideas for attaching either the outer face of the fender, or the entire fender itself, so that it's removable to make the tire and wheel easily accessible. The requirements are 1) it attaches securely so that it will withstand bumps and not fall off, 2) fasteners are easily reached to unfasten and refasten, and 3) Doesn’t make the fender any wider than is necessary for about 1” of clearance on either side of the tire And, 4) I'd prefer that the fasteners are accessed from outside, not from the interior if possible.

While I am on the subject, I have a question about the Dexter #9 axle, which I need to order ASAP. From pics I have seen, it appears that the torsion arm clears the frame by about ¾”. How much space does this leave between the inside of the tire and the frame? Does the torsion arm reside inside the wheel area? Or is the clearance between the inside of the tire and the frame the total of “the arm clearance plus the arm width, plus more clearance between the arm and the tire”? I'l prefer to have only 1" clearance between the tire and the frame is possible. My boat trailer has a spring axle, so it is no help with this question.

Help with either of both of these problems is appreciated.

[grant whipp]

Hey there, Dale!

Re: the fenders - like you wanted, build 'em to the same shape as your trailer, but build a panel that can be removed to access the wheel/tire a la fender-skirts. If you are building them out of wood, just install an inner lip that the skirt lays up against (so the skirt part is flush with fender part). You can place 3 or 4 nut inserts in that lip and have corosponding flush, flathead machine bolts in the skirts. If you want to get fancy, use Dzus fasteners. Just one idea ...

Re: Dexter axle question - if you are ordering your axle, you can get whatever clearances you need. #9s shouldn't have any less that 14" rims. The frame mounts are where you tell them to put them (usually outside frame width). Clearance between trailing arm and body is whatever you are comfortable with (on a 48" wide body, for instance, I spec NO LESS than 49" between trailing arms). Hubface-to-hubface should be determined by wheel choice (and the backspace of that wheel) and tire choice (overall width of tire [sidewall to sidewall] compared with overall width of wheel). If you give me frame width, body width, wheel width with backspace, tire width, and your desired tire-to-body clearance, I can calculate the specs you need. You'll need to figure out what trailing arm starting angle you want, though.

Happy to help if I can! Hope you're having a Happy Holiday Season! In the meantime ...

CHEERS!

Grant

[cracker39]

Grant, thanks for the offer to help.

I need the #9 as my TTT will probably weigh in at areound 1500 lbs or maybe a little more when loaded for camping. I had planned on using the same white spoke 13" (ST175/80D13 tires) as on my boat trailer so I could use the same spare tire. The tire diameter is 23.75". Are you saying that the 13" wouldn't be a good choice for the #9? When I talked to a rep at Redneck trailers about the axle, I said I was using the 13" wheels and he didn't seem to have a problem with that. I can get the same wheels in 14", but then, I'd have to buy a third for a spare, and decide on a tire size before I ordered the axle. Using my truck spare is out because it's a 6-bolt pattern.

I had calculated the starting angle at 10 degree down which would put my frame on a fairly level plane with about a 1"-2" drop from the hitch to the axle with the 13" tires, and leave about 9"-10" clearace at the rear. These are load clearances. Shock clearance would be 7"-8" at the rear. With the 14" tire, the plane from front to back would be more towards being level.

The frame will be 60" wide, and need about 1 1/2" more clearance between the trailing arms (3/4" per side). Those 13" tires are 7" wide, sidewall to sidewall. What I don't know is how close the inside wall of the tires can be to the frame with the trailing arms 3/4" from the frame. Does the trailing arm fit inside the wheel rim edges? or will the tires be several inches from the frame? I suppse I'll find that out when I get the axle. The tech at Redneck trailers in Tampa just said to tell him my frame width, drop angle, and tire width and he'd do the calculations.

As for my fender, I had decided to use a removable face, but didn't want exposed screw or bolt heads. I think I have come up with a way of fastening it, but am waiting to see what other ideas members come up with. I didn't know about those Dzus fasteners...some of them are really neat.

Thanks.

[Frank]

Dale,

I made plywood fenders shaped like the weekender then cut a front access hole shaped like a modernistic. The fenders sit on a piece of angle iron that is bolted under the frame, this makes the bottom of the fender level with the bottom of the frame. You can of course see the angle, did not know how else to do it as I forgot to put framing inside the wall of the trailer to bolt the fenders to. The fenders have a piece of angle inside of them(fiberglassed in place) that bolts to the angle. You could do the same and just unbolt ( 4 5/15 X3/4") bolts.

[WarPony]

Dale, I am making wooden fenders, too.

Okay, I have a couple of different ways to go with on this. One, is to skin the top with aluminum and then have a Rhino or LineX coating underneath to keep the dents from showing. As far as accessing the wheel, I have two other ideas. Either go with a fender that hinges on the front and pivots forward, with some sort of pin attaching the rear part of it, or a fender that has a hinge attached to the wall so the fender will move up against the wall and out of the way.

[cracker39]

So far, there have been several ideas on how to do what I want to do, indluding some from another post "Fender Replacements". My fender will be curved on top, so I can't hinge the whole fender from the top, and pointed on the front and back, same for hinging it there. So, I think the removable face (outside skin) is the way to go. That means totally removable, or, from Warpony's post, making the face in two pieces (cutting it straight across, front to rear about 2"-3" from the top) and hinging it with some piano hinge, so that the larger lower section will hinge out and up, then using the barrell bolts at the bottom to hold it in place until needing to access the tire. I'll put this one in my idea bin. I think I still like the totally removale face better though. I'd like to have no fasteners or hinges showing on the fender if possible. There are a number of possibilities to consider, thanks to your suggestions.

[cracker39]

OK...I've taken these ideas and run with it. I made up some diagrams, and rather than put more pics in the forum album, I made up another web page with my new design ideas (subject, of course, to further change).

Here it is. Look, read, and comment, please.

http://home.tampabay.rr.com/wdsummers/s ... tails.html

[WarPony]

Dale, would you worry about water standing trapped between the outer and inner faces?

[cracker39]

Warpony, I don't think I understand your question. There is only one outer face picce. The main fender has two of the frame pieces shown in the diagram (figures 1 and 3), with the spars attached between them, just like the side frames of a TD and it's spars. Then the front, back, and top skins are attahced to the frame edges and the spars. That leaves a fender shell with no sides. It is attached to the body by screws through the inner frame piece. The outer face is put in place and held there by the barrell bolts. So, there will be no place for water to be trapped that I can see. All of the surfaces will be sealed with varnish, and then the inner surfaces will be coated with the same undercoating that will be on the bottom of the trailer. Is that more clear?

[Ira]

I did my measurements today, and I think I may go with a FLAT top, and do something swirly/decorative for the face. And since it'll be flat, I don't need no stinkin' spars:

I only want to come out 8 inches from the wall, which is just about where my current fender extends. I can go 40 inches long, starting near the opening end of the door and ending near my tail lights. I would come down from this board at the end with vertical pieces that extend down 12 inches. (These would be block attached in corners to the top piece. I figure I can use 8" wide boards for this, 3/8" thick, maybe 1/2".) I hope it comes 8" wide, because I really don't want to cut ply.

A long block piece will run under the long top board, to attach to the trailer side. The vertical pieces will also have block pieces for this reason. Block pieces can be 1 by 2s.

The face would therefore be 12 inches high at the very ends, and cut out in the middle to the pattern I'm looking at to highlight the wheel and everything. I don't see any reason to design the face in such a way that it would have to be REMOVED in order to remove a wheel. Wheels are only 12".

This is all contingent on the premise that I don't change my mind tomorrow.

[WarPony]

Dale, I was confused on how you were doing this until I look at the #4 pic. The place for water to collect I was talking about came from pic #1. Will the fender face be laying against the dark grey area when it is on?

As far as a forward hinging idea goes, I think it could still work on your fender. I don't know if your fenders will be flush with the bottom of you TTT or not. That's maybe why it may not work on your setup but here goes. On pic #4, could a bracket come off the body so a hinge could be attached to the front, bottom of the fender and another one at the back bottom to lock it down? Rock the fender forward along the side of the trailer to get at the tire. Like I said, I don't know if it will work on your setup but it may simplify the construction of the fender itself.

[cracker39]

I see now what you mean....That could work...

[cracker39]

I think I finally found the ideal method of hanging a fully removable fender. I was looking through my Rocker catalog at fasteners, and found several types that will work. I think that the best fastener is this taper connector. the picture doesn t show it as well as in the catalog. It is two pieces. One mounts on the wall, and one on the fender, and I'd use two sets, one set toward each end of the fender, and use bolts rather than screws on the fender and wall (counter sinking the nuts inside the framing before the interior paneling is installed). The pieces on the fender are slid down into the pieces on the wall. It will leave a 1/4' space between the fender and the wall, but the piece mounted to the fender could be set in a 1/8" deep routed groove, and then would only leave a 1/8" gap...hardly noticeable. Once the fender is inserted into the piece on the wall, a bracket mounted on the bottom of the fender front and back, could be turned under the side rail to keep the fender from being bounced up and out of the connectors. This method will require that the fender have a full fender shaped frame of 3/4" plywood on the inside for the connector to mount on.

Next would be either the flush mount bracket shown on that same page. They leave only a 1/8" gap. If used, I'd put 3 sets on each fender.

These brackets remove all the work from trying to make the fender removable. Just measure, and screw the connectors to the side wall and fender, and put a locking piece on the bottom to go under the frame to keep the fender in place on the connectors.

[WarPony]

Dale, good hit on the taper connectors!! Wow, that makes the fender attachment even simpler!! I think that's the way I'm gonna go for mine. Hell, if it is used for attaching bed frame pieces and THEY stand up to some rough punishment, they ought to hold a small fender on bouncing down the highway at 80 MPH.

[dacrazyrn]

Those connectors look like they could come in handy for a lot of fixes. Mounting a table on the side of the tear comes to mind.
I plan on building an icebox and those would be useful to keep it in place and still make it possible to remove if needed. Not to mention ALL the cabinets. More thinking starting up....DAMN!! Hate when this happens. More decisions and design ideas, oh well...I am in a lull here with the cold/windy weather and no garage.